[Eddy]

I've heard a fair amount of discussion about liver dumps. I presume that I've had these when:

1. I feel _really_ lousy and must lie down
2. Correctional carbohydrates raise me much less than expected (e.g., 100 points worth takes me from 40 mg/dL to 90 mg/dL).

Fortunately, these are fairly rare.

Last night, I felt a hypo hit. Sure enough, 52 mg/dL. Being tired of soda[*], I went for a 45-point can of grapefruit juice. Much tastier and healthier!

A bit later, I started feeling hyperglycemic. Sure enough, I was up to 123. Being impatient and wanting to go to bed, I shot a correction 1.5 U of lispro.

Wouldn't you know it? I ended up in the low 50s again. I said "heck with it", had corrective soda, and fell asleep before I could confirm the increase.

This morning, I awoke with BG of 82. I've set my basal to give me an overnight drop of 10, so it appears I had a perfect night's sleep... going to bed in the low 90s, and awakening in the low 80s.

Yet the spike/drop nature of last night has me wondering: It appears that my liver may have kicked in an "extra" 30 mg/dL. One of the reasons I use soda to correct sub-60 hypos is because I feel better much faster than with juice... could it be that my body "recognizes" soda, and doesn't race for a liver dump as quickly? Yet, last night, my liver started pumping out glucose... then went to reclaim it when the lispro was hitting?
[*] It works, works quickly, and works well. Two mouthfuls of 7up or Sprite is worth a ~45 mg/dL increase, and happens entirely within 15-20 minutes.

[Cyborg]

I find glucose tabs to be much faster and predictable when it comes to raising bg. If you know your BG:C ratio, it's easy to know how many tabs to pop to bring your bg to target without experiencing the roller coaster effect.

[AlanRobertClark]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

I find glucose tabs to be much faster and predictable when it comes to raising bg. If you know your BG:C ratio, it's easy to know how many tabs to pop to bring your bg to target without experiencing the roller coaster effect.

Hi Cyborg.

*Your* method of BG:C ratio determination??? I would like to know as that is what I am busy with now. Difficulty, of course is the Glycaemic Index, but more importantly Glycaemic Load of the Carb. Would you share your method with a Newbie?

[xMenace]

Originally Posted by Eddy

I've heard a fair amount of discussion about liver dumps. I presume that I've had these when:

1. I feel _really_ lousy and must lie down
2. Correctional carbohydrates raise me much less than expected (e.g., 100 points worth takes me from 40 mg/dL to 90 mg/dL).

I don't think so. I won't argue they won't make you feel ill, but many ... illnessess ... can make you feel ill too. Don't assume. Test.

Liver dumps make your BGs raise by adding sugar to your bloodstream. I also believe, but I don't know, that insulin resistence is also increased. I find additional carbs raise my BGs even quicker.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

I find glucose tabs to be much faster and predictable when it comes to raising bg. If you know your BG:C ratio, it's easy to know how many tabs to pop to bring your bg to target without experiencing the roller coaster effect.

40mg/dL:15g, and the glucose tabs make me sick. @#$! artificial dyes.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by xMenace

I don't think so. I won't argue they won't make you feel ill, but many ... illnessess ... can make you feel ill too. Don't assume. Test.

Plenty of that.

Originally Posted by xMenace

Liver dumps make your BGs raise by adding sugar to your bloodstream.

I know. What I want to know is, _how_ does one know that a liver dump is occurring?

Originally Posted by xMenace

I also believe, but I don't know, that insulin resistence is also increased. I find additional carbs raise my BGs even quicker.

When I start low, insulin seems to act faster.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by AlanRobertClark

Hi Cyborg.

*Your* method of BG:C ratio determination??? I would like to know as that is what I am busy with now. Difficulty, of course is the Glycaemic Index, but more importantly Glycaemic Load of the Carb. Would you share your method with a Newbie?

Here's some info on how to measure your BG:C ratio. You can also calculate the ratio and here's some info on how to do that.

Originally Posted by Eddy

40mg/dL:15g, and the glucose tabs make me sick. @#$! artificial dyes.

I'm not sure if they make the tabs without coloring. I do know that certain brands of tabs taste much better than others of the same flavor.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Here's some info on how to measure your BG:C ratio. You can also calculate the ratio and here's some info on how to do that.

BTDT... and that's what makes sense. Yet hypo-stopping carbohydrate always seems to raise me _higher_. That's why I inquired about the liver dump.

The rule of (450|500) also doesn't work so well for me. My TDD is higher than one would expect; my Lantus dose also is disproportionately high, accounting for 70% of TDD -- unless I eat more than the recommended 15U/day.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Plenty of that... What I want to know is, _how_ does one know that a liver dump is occurring?....

Generally speaking, you will only have a liver dump if it has been a long time since your last meal (12+ hours) or if your blood glucose drops very low. I don't ever get the first type of liver dump, and I don't think it is as common as many people think. You will know that the liver is producing glucose if your blood glucose level jumps up without any carbohydrate having been consumed. My blood glucose needs to drop below 30 before this happens, but we are all a bit different. You can test this out for yourself by getting linked up to a CGMS and letting your blood glucose drop. You will probably find that your blood glucose has to drop a lot lower than 50 for this to happen. When the liver comes to the rescue, it normally sends blood glucose very high - like 250+. So it really doesn't look to me like your liver was involved in your unexpected results.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Generally speaking, you will only have a liver dump if it has been a long time since your last meal (12+ hours) or if your blood glucose drops very low.

[ snip ]

Thanks. Interestingly enough, the times I _do_ hit ~250 after a low, I've had enough rapid-acting CHO that I expect to be higher.

I guess I'll chalk this up as a "hunh" for now.

Thanks to all...