[Funnygrl]

Originally Posted by LancetChick

Well, it's pretty easy to find out if it's an allergy, and that's to discontinue the suspicious insulin. In fact, Sanofi-Aventis does say in the product literature that allergies to insulin products can occur, though they are rare.

Like I said, I myself am allergic to Lantus. I had classic allergy smptoms though- hives, redness, swelling at the injection site. Those are typical symptoms of a histamine induced allergy. It's when people get vague symptoms that are hard to pin point or hard to figure out what aspect of the medication is causing it that I find hard to swallow. If you take chemo, you know it acts on quickly multiplying cells and kills them, thus you lose your hair and get GI symptoms. It's easy to figure out how the medication can cause those side effects. I can't imagine how an insulin can effect mode or cause pain.

As for discontinuing a medication, I'm also a firm believer in the placebo and reverse placebo effects. I'm not saying it's not possible, but don't you think it's possible that expecting the pain (or whatever) to stop can effect the outcome?

Who knows, again, not saying it's not possible or that people don't truly have reactions, but I personally wouldn't blame the insulin.

Mazea- in case you got the impression my hospital had anything to do with a trial of Lantus, we didn't. Were you in a Lantus trial?

[mazea]

I'm also a firm believer in the placebo and reverse placebo effects. I'm not saying it's not possible, but don't you think it's possible that expecting the pain (or whatever) to stop can effect the outcome?

Swelling,(I couldn't fit into my shoes), one foot being a 2 shades darker and bluer other foot and circulation problems that showed up on a bone scan are not placebo effects. Maybe pain can be but actual physical symptoms no I don't believe so.

It sounds like your allergic reaction was pretty bad. I didn't say I had an allergic reaction, don't know that I did. I just know I had a reaction. Actually there are a lot of different reactions to Lantus, including water retention which is mentioned on the information sheet from the makers of Lantus.

[Funnygrl]

Originally Posted by mazea

Swelling,(I couldn't fit into my shoes), one foot being a 2 shades darker and bluer other foot and circulation problems that showed up on a bone scan are not placebo effects. Maybe pain can be but actual physical symptoms no I don't believe so.

It sounds like your allergic reaction was pretty bad. I didn't say I had an allergic reaction, don't know that I did. I just know I had a reaction. Actually there are a lot of different reactions to Lantus, including water retention which is mentioned on the information sheet from the makers of Lantus.

I wasn't necessarily referring to you when I was referring to the placebo effect. Your reaction is interesting. I'm still not sure how lantus could cause it, but I don't doubt that your symptoms were genuine.

Nonetheless, I'm glad it's resolved now.

[LancetChick]

I wouldn't call pain that needs to be treated with morphine and that causes one to be unable to work a "vague symptom". Maybe it's psychosomatic, but it just doesn't sound that way to me.

As far as allergy symptoms go, I'm a little out of my league, but isn't it conceivable that inflammation of the nerve cells could produce severe pain?

[Funnygrl]

Originally Posted by LancetChick

I wouldn't call pain that needs to be treated with morphine and that causes one to be unable to work a "vague symptom". Maybe it's psychosomatic, but it just doesn't sound that way to me.

As far as allergy symptoms go, I'm a little out of my league, but isn't it conceivable that inflammation of the nerve cells could produce severe pain?

We're using vague in different ways. You can have severe but vague pain. I'm using vague in the sense that it's non-specific. Appendicitis pain isn't vague, it's focused in one obvious area. Same with a broken bone, etc, etc. The pain described in the OP is vague simply because it's generalized and doesn't have a known cause. But vague symptoms can still be severe imo.

I suppose it's conceivable that there's inflammation causing the pain (though I've never heard of your nerve cells themselves being inflammed, but rather inflammation around them pressing on them), but true allergies are histamine-induced and symptoms revolve around excess blast cells generally.

I'm not calling the pain psychosomatic either. I'm saying in my opinion it's unlikely it's the Lantus and I'd want people to continue investigating for a cause.