[volleyball]

Most of us are not diabetes professionals so it is to be expected that our focus is on our form and how it affects us.
Being type 2 and reading the wording given, it comes across as the type 1's do not have a true understanding of type 2. It goes both ways but the rant was initiated by type 1 so I think it kind of funny that it came across as the same misinformation that the uninformed "do gooders" that peeved the OP.
My suggestion to the thin type 1's bothered by people, they may want to say that their information applies to the fat diabetics. Then they will go bother someone else. It allows them to continue thinking they are smart about diabetes and get them off your back at the same time. I apologize to the fat diabetics in advance.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by microwave

I see these as two completely different demons, slightly related illness at best. Neither of which anyone deserves.

I actually see Type 1 and Type 2 as two ends of a spectrum that covers an underlying disorder of insulin metabolism - in one case; not enough insulin, in the other too much (at least initially).

Originally Posted by microwave

Is there any of the type II's that have lost weight, are now a healthy weight and continue to struggle with there blood sugars?

I only ask because the the few friends I have that are type II lost weight and are normoglycemic. All the years I worked in the hospital the patients continued to be quite obese

Yes Type 2 is associated with excess weight and yes Type 2 can be improved by losing that weight BUT neither of these facts prove that Type 2 is caused by excess weight. Just to muddy the picture even more, there are several here on DF who continue to be overweight and yet have also achieved normal BG levels. There are others who are not overweight and struggle to maintain normal BG levels. I find this strongly suggestive that there is something beyond excess weight at the root of this disorder.

[microwave]

There are others who are not overweight and struggle to maintain normal BG levels. I find this strongly suggestive that there is something beyond excess weight at the root of this disorder.

Thats what I was curious about. I just havent seen it personally or didn't notice.

Cheers

[cyberus]

While I too am unhappy with the treatment of type 2 in the media, re:they brought it on themselves, since as a 4th generation Type 2 I'm fairly sure genetics played a bigger role than anything I did. Especially since my mother wasn't obese even by the new insurance statistics driven BMI standard when she went type 2, nor is my sister who after my diagnosis (and prompting by both me and my mother) got a home HBa1c kit the results of which sent her to the doctor who warned her that she is most likely headed down the road to type 2 and she has never been overweight let alone obese.

As to the re-naming thing.

Even though I know after reading this thread that the intent of a rename of the types was for clarification let me tell you what my initial gut reaction was ...

"Excuse me? My diabetes is somehow not worthy of being associated with yours?"

As a type 2 I'm already being painted with the wide media "obese slothful sugar slurper" brush, at least there is enough confusion that we get a chance to explain ourselves now, renaming IMO sets up the potential to end up like lung cancer patients, with a presumption of guilt that its something brought on by "bad" behavior (smoking).

I think more education on what diabetes is and the fact that it comes in various types and is brought on by MANY different factors would be a better option than re-naming diabetes into the lung cancer "had it coming to you slob" and bone cancer "poor unlucky soul" setup.

Rant over

[soso]

Thanks for bringing the cancer example up Cyberus, I was thinking about what other disease exists where people often only get sympathy tinged with a sneer and I was thinking about the smoking angle.... I think that attitude in the world is at the root of this problem in general...
I am also going to admit, that when someone who knew me years ago and I was chubby, gives me the knowing nod..I do feel driven to explain I have T1— but I also know I shouldn't feel defensive.. So where does it all come from... some of it at least from me no doubt... So I can't really diss other people for having some of these biased opinions—obviously advertising works, and that is how i see the media sound bite on Diabetes.. say it enough times and we all start to learn it..
Maybe some people do become less or even un-diabetic with the right "lifestyle" ( I have always believed as Frank does, D causes weight gain) but I think where I would like to work on myself and others is to get rid of the 'guilt , blame, shame" attitude that exists in the world....
It sort of reminds me of how some people in the world were behaving when Aids reared it's ugly head.. they felt they were safe from it and they blamed the victims for their choices that they believed led them to contract it.. and we all know how well that worked out...

[UpNorth]

I haven't read the whole thread here now due to being tired and more or less on my way to head to bed. But YES, i'm really sick of people linking me with T2! Sure, i'm overweight, but i'm T1. Many who doesn't know me thinks i'm an insulindependant T2 because of my weight and the usual "eating too much sugar" but the fact is my pancreas is dead. Several tests has confirmed that through the 4 years i've been diabetic. and i became diabetic due to autoimmune reaction not anything else. Bah! Some days i really wish i wasn't as open about my diabetes... i've never had a problem with "being diabetic in public" but lately i've just been fed up with non-d's stupid comments need i say i'm currently taking a break from checking my sugar on the train or fiddle with my pump in public unless it's really needed... I don't mind doing it at work though, my workmates are used to it... but out in the city i've become more private about the whole d issue lately.

I really wish there would come better definitions of T1 and T2 so non-d's would learn the differences once and for all, instead of mentioning their T2 grandfather who only had to watch his diet, thinking i can do the same.

Sorry for rambling a long post

[T2womanNc]

I agree with you many feel that due to the fact that I allowed myself to get out of shape It must me my fault. Now I lose weight like crazy if I don’t watch my BG. I checked a book out of the library about the history of diabetes and the pictures from the early part of the 20th century look like anorexics. There were no T1’s or T2’s there were just diabetics. Now in my own mind I see T2 as being middle aged and overweight. I am so surprised to see the stereotyping surrounding a disease. I was not even aware I was doing it myself. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I am so interested in the type 1.5. Perhaps even emotionally I desire to remove the possibility of further “fault”.

[lorilei]

proverbial head slap..if all the type 1's and 2's left to start their own forums, that would leave like 5 of us in the type 1.5 forum. i would miss all of the great advice and good laughs i have received from all of you. just one question, who gets stuck with the 'diabeetus" pronunciation? by the way i have the privilige of being a thin, young hypertensive, person with diabetes...but that's another whole thread!

[Gary_W]

Originally Posted by cyberus

As to the re-naming thing.

Even though I know after reading this thread that the intent of a rename of the types was for clarification let me tell you what my initial gut reaction was ...

"Excuse me? My diabetes is somehow not worthy of being associated with yours?"

As a type 2 I'm already being painted with the wide media "obese slothful sugar slurper" brush, at least there is enough confusion that we get a chance to explain ourselves now, renaming IMO sets up the potential to end up like lung cancer patients, with a presumption of guilt that its something brought on by "bad" behavior (smoking).

I think more education on what diabetes is and the fact that it comes in various types and is brought on by MANY different factors would be a better option than re-naming diabetes into the lung cancer "had it coming to you slob" and bone cancer "poor unlucky soul" setup.

Rant over

The reason I think renaming would be helpful is not because of a 'mine is better than yours' type thing. I know of several T2's who genuinely believe that their condition is not serious because they have don't have to inject. Because of ignorance, diabetes means injections to a lot of people, and being told you have diabetes but don't have to inject can lead to the confusion in the mind of the patient that they have 'mild' diabetes or 'not the bad kind'.

I would argue that the bad kind of diabetes is the one you don't take seriously which then ends up wrecking your life. T1 forces you to do something NOW or be ill NOW. T2 needs you to do something NOW to stop illness LATER, and as the changes NOW are often painful in terms of changing lifestyle then some T2's choose the option of burying their heads in the sand. Some T1's do likewise, but the feedback loop of illness comes calling much quicker and forces action, hence many people believing it a more serious condition or 'the bad kind'.

Calling T2 something scary enough to wake some folks up would be no bad thing. It may also stop the inapropriate advice given by the great unknowing public to unsuspecting T1s and T2s due to no-one outside this club really knowing the difference because the name is the same. When we have huge educational and media-created hyseria surrounding both conditions, surely a somewhat confused naming convention isn't helpful? Too many people (both patients and public) don't bother about T2 and I think all the baggage of the misleading name and mis-information over the years doesn't help. A newly diagnosed person needs to come to this with an open mind, not a head full of preconceived ideas. For this reason alone a name change may help.

[fgummett]

Some really good points Gary... thanks

[cyberus]

Originally Posted by Gary_W

The reason I think renaming would be helpful is not because of a 'mine is better than yours' type thing. I know of several T2's who genuinely believe that their condition is not serious because they have don't have to inject. Because of ignorance, diabetes means injections to a lot of people, and being told you have diabetes but don't have to inject can lead to the confusion in the mind of the patient that they have 'mild' diabetes or 'not the bad kind'.

I would argue that the bad kind of diabetes is the one you don't take seriously which then ends up wrecking your life. T1 forces you to do something NOW or be ill NOW. T2 needs you to do something NOW to stop illness LATER, and as the changes NOW are often painful in terms of changing lifestyle then some T2's choose the option of burying their heads in the sand. Some T1's do likewise, but the feedback loop of illness comes calling much quicker and forces action, hence many people believing it a more serious condition or 'the bad kind'.

Calling T2 something scary enough to wake some folks up would be no bad thing. It may also stop the inapropriate advice given by the great unknowing public to unsuspecting T1s and T2s due to no-one outside this club really knowing the difference because the name is the same. When we have huge educational and media-created hyseria surrounding both conditions, surely a somewhat confused naming convention isn't helpful? Too many people (both patients and public) don't bother about T2 and I think all the baggage of the misleading name and mis-information over the years doesn't help. A newly diagnosed person needs to come to this with an open mind, not a head full of preconceived ideas. For this reason alone a name change may help.

Some good points ... however I still think education is the key not new labels but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[GrammaBear]

Not all Type 2 diabetic people are overweight. My Mum was diagnosed the same month as I was in April of 2003. She was 5'4" tall and weighed 115 lbs soaking wet. And yet she was Type 2.

Those of us Type 2 diabetic people who are overweight may have made some choices when we were younger that weren't good. I wish I could go back and 'undo' my bad decisions, but I can't. All I can do now is to watch my diet, exercise and take my insulin as prescribed.

The nice thing about this Forum is that even though we have a different opinion about something, we can still be helpful to each other.

GrammaBear

[soso]

Good points Gary.. sometimes I think that when I make it all work right for me, others (not my nearest and dearest though) don't see my struggles and blow it off too easily... or if I do talk openly about what I have to do, they don't seem to get that it's not a choice i make happily.

I know a couple of T2's and a couple of T1's personally, that I wish would take things a bit more seriously.... that's another downside to this disease, KNOWING what we know can make it painful to see others hurting themselves and dread for what we fear will happen to them down the road.

[cyberus]

Originally Posted by GrammaBear

Not all Type 2 diabetic people are overweight. My Mum was diagnosed the same month as I was in April of 2003. She was 5'4" tall and weighed 115 lbs soaking wet. And yet she was Type 2.

Those of us Type 2 diabetic people who are overweight may have made some choices when we were younger that weren't good. I wish I could go back and 'undo' my bad decisions, but I can't. All I can do now is to watch my diet, exercise and take my insulin as prescribed.

The nice thing about this Forum is that even though we have a different opinion about something, we can still be helpful to each other.

GrammaBear

Yeah ... like I said my mom wasn't obese or really overweight when she was diagnosed which IMO brings us back to genetics since that made her generation 3. I'm hoping come Thanksgiving I can convince her to toss the ADA guidelines and cut her carbs rather than continue on the path of higher doses of ever stronger meds.

[Carwy]

You must also remember those of us who are type II heading to type 1 and lately it seems fast have not control over it.
I have hemochromatosis and it seems lately it's been beating the **** out of my pancreas.
It's gotten to the point where I eat a dinner salad (which I eat 95% of the time) and my blood sugar goes up to 320.