[DanG]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

...NPH or Lente was initially used for basal.

So, my initial 30 years using insulin - lente only - was probably an incorrect manner of treatment? ...the things we learn. Which corroborates my theory that most doctors are idiots.

I used only lente, only one shot per day for 30 years, from 1974 to 2004, as I was directed by the doctor, and then lente became unavailable. I resisted the prospect of numerous shots per day until I could no longer purchase lente. I never visited a doctor for 25 years. When lente became unavailable, I had to find a doctor who would write a prescription for the lantus and humalog. That's all he does still - why bother with any other counsel from such a gang of idiots - don't get me wrong, they are nice people, but...

I guess my experience has jaded my opinions of the medical-industrial-complex. The more I learn, the more jaded I become.

[GeishaGirl]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

The NPH/Regular regimen involved having two shots of NPH and one of regular every day, and timing the shots so that peaks coincided with mealtimes. This is not MDI, which is synonomous with basal/bolus. In other words, you have a separate shot of fast acting insulin to cover each meal, and 1 or two shots of basal insulin to cover background requirements. Basal/bolus (or MDI) only got started when Humalog became available, and NPH or Lente was initially used for basal.

Yeah, this is what my mom did. She was diagnosed in 1966 or 67, and got her pancreas transplant in 2005, and for those 38 years, she was on this system. I have NO idea why her doc never put her on a basal/bolus, but when I was diagnosed a year ago, I had to explain all of this to her. It seemed so strange...

And she's still convinced that, when it comes to insulin doses, calories are more important than carbs. So when I eat chicken there, but ignore the rice, and take no insulin, she gets upset.

[SueM]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

The NPH/Regular regimen involved having two shots of NPH and one of regular every day, and timing the shots so that peaks coincided with mealtimes. This is not MDI, which is synonomous with basal/bolus. In other words, you have a separate shot of fast acting insulin to cover each meal, and 1 or two shots of basal insulin to cover background requirements. Basal/bolus (or MDI) only got started when Humalog became available, and NPH or Lente was initially used for basal.

Nope it was always 2 NPH and 2 what you call regular.
Depending on the clinitest colour. Depended what amount I had. Even back in the 1960's this was posible
I mainly had 2 and 2 but weekends I had some more at lunch time.
I doubt the Drs ever knew My Mum was way ahead of her time as far as diabetes was concerned.

[DeusXM]

I think it's a bit rich for you to say that most doctors are idiots. Some might say that actively avoiding them isn't exactly a smart move either, and perhaps if you had visited a doctor more than once every quarter century, you might have been shown how your treatment regime was wrong.

In my experience, doctors do not know everything and it's ludicrous to expect them to. But I certainly wouldn't have the quality of life I have if I didn't listen to them and talk to them about my condition.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

In my experience, doctors do not know everything and it's ludicrous to expect them to. But I certainly wouldn't have the quality of life I have if I didn't listen to them and talk to them about my condition.

If I had some of the "good" experience that you have talking to the doctor - you bet, I would be there to speak with a doctor about things. Maybe not, however. The doc that got me out of the ER and started me on insulin loooong ago, told me that I would know more about my diabetes than he would ever know - I believe(d) him, and that remains to be the background of my interaction with a doctor.

The current doc has wanted me to take some other meds - I forget which, maybe blood pressure or cholesterol - but I cut off that discussion quickly as I am not prone to more life than is logical. I want to be realistic regarding life and the ultimate of life - death. I am old, I have diabetes, I don't really have other issues, but I am not going to attempt to be living longer with chemistry - insulin is the med for me, then death. I can live with that. My wife is the same way, this after watching her mom die with all that ugliness of cancer treatments - she says no thanks to doctors and their chemistry. After you see a few persons die around you, it becomes obvious that death is part of the journey. I can accept that.

[alicat61]

[quote=BlueSky;467643. Basal/bolus (or MDI) only got started when Humalog became available, and NPH or Lente was initially used for basal.[/QUOTE]

Hi,
I disagree with this statement. I did MDI with Protophane and Actrapid insulin. At the start I would have 2 injections a day of a mixture of protophane/actrapid before breakfast and dinner. In the mid 1990's after doing some reading I changed to haveing the Protophane when I first got up then again at night, The actrapid I would have before meals, Made more sense as I worked shift work and could not be guarenteed regular meals. I then went to my endo at the time and informed him of what I had done
In 2006 I changed to Humalog and Lantus before this Lantus was not funded by our Govt medication scheme so was very expensive.
The actrapid and protophane worked but not as quick as the newer insulins

[DeusXM]

The doc that got me out of the ER and started me on insulin loooong ago, told me that I would know more about my diabetes than he would ever know - I believe(d) him, and that remains to be the background of my interaction with a doctor.

That's completely true, but I would still say that doesn't justify avoiding seeing a doctor for 25 years.

After you see a few persons die around you, it becomes obvious that death is part of the journey. I can accept that.

Good for you, many people can't. But I would argue that taking statins or ACE inhibitors isn't exactly comparable to chemo. Death may be the destination, but I personally intend to prolong the journey as much as possible for as long as the journey remains fun and interesting. I respect that not everyone feels this way though.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

Death may be the destination, but I personally intend to prolong the journey as much as possible for as long as the journey remains fun and interesting. I respect that not everyone feels this way though.

Very reasonable response - thanks.
While I intend to hang around as long as I can, I remain skeptical about the methods used today for problems that are detected - throw some chemical at the problem, i.e. statins, ACE.

Insulin dependence, in itself, causes these situations fundamentally. Instead of better life through use of chemicals, I would rather change other things in life, such as diet and exercise, etc instead of throw chemicals down the chute. Plus, watching the chemicals plus nuclear treatment and then the vast quality of life with the cancer stuff in my mother-in-law 20 years ago is just enough to say forget about those methods and "die already." A while ago, I heard a radio news item on npr explaining the gen-x attitude - "die already" speaking to the boomers. I can take that - you gen-x guys have more ahead of you than an old boomer - I can pass gracefully.

[DeusXM]

Instead of better life through use of chemicals, I would rather change other things in life, such as diet and exercise

If everyone had that attitude, the world would be a healthier and happier place. Kudos. Stay healthy mate.