[Janke]

I may be in an information overload at the moment and need to continue processing all the things I am reading.

I have an ADA book "Diabetes Meal Planning Made Easy" and also have been reading the web site Blood Sugar 101 and am getting such contradictory information from the two, primarily in the amount of carbohydrate is right for a diabetic. If the low carb eating does result in 'normalizing' blood sugar, why in the world would the ADA promote a higher carb diet? Perhaps they need to 'dumb down' the message so that rules are simple and realistic enough for most people to follow. I would assume that the ADA has experts and highly educated staff and research scientists. Perhaps the ADA is like any other bureaucratic institution in that change (institutional change at that) is so hard and so cumbersome that any employee who doesn't spout the company line doesn't get promoted?

I have an appointment next month with a diabetes educator provided by my insurance company. I attended one of these workshops a couple years ago (when I was still a "pre") and have to say that the presenter confused me more than enlightened me. At least this time, I will have my list of questions and will see how she/he is able to answer them, party line or real answer.

I guess my problem is coming under the heading "Take Charge of My Health". I have never been a person who could ignore conventional health practices in favor of what seemed to be almost faddish plans promoted by the whims or today's headlines. So, I hesitate to ignore the ADA. But the logic of low carb eating makes more sense.

I need to learn my body and my reactions and my metabolism and maybe that is the key since conclusions made by researchers are based on averages and tendancies and statistics. What do some of you say? TEST TEST TEST!

I have a plan for the month of May to track every morsel that I eat and test my BG about six times a day and see what happens to my body when I vary my diet. Hope I can stay on this plan. Never have liked writing down everything I eat in the past, but I also never had potential complications like blindness and kidney failure looming in my future, so much closer to now than ever before.

No wonder my sister who has had diabetes for several years and considers her doctor the best source of information seems to be confused and a bit lost about what she should be doing.

[kgm0612]

Janke........I just read an article in one of my diabetes magazines that says the ADA is now recognizing a lower carbohydrate diet to control blood sugars. FINALLY!

When I was first dx'd (5 years ago) and met with a CDE, she did up a meal plan consisting of 245g of carbs per day. I followed her diet for close to 2 weeks before listening to my forum friends and going low carb. My blood sugars improved within a couple of days. You have to find what works best for you by trial and error.

Karen

[fgummett]

I think with any formal "diet plan" you need to look at its history and who came up with it... we have a Canada Food Guide here which, it turns out is sponsored in part by the Milk Marketing Board

You seem to have the right approach in questioning the "party line" and finding out what works best for yourself... keep it up. From my reading on this site I am definitely leaning towards a lower carbs. but closer to 100g per day as opposed to the ultra low 30g.

Interesting observation about the Canada Food Guide which spouts the usual eat from all the food groups every day... the traditional diet of the Inuit in Northern Canada was almost exclusively protein (fish, seal, whale, walrus, caribou etc...) and fat (blubber) with greens and berries only in season. The incidence of diabetes and heart disease amongst the Inuit was practically nil... until they started eating our food.... now they are one of the most "at risk" groups

[princesslinda]

Jan, when first diagnosed, I saw a "diabetic educator" at my doctor's office. She gave me the ADA guidelines of 3-4 servings of carbs/meal. I tried this for awhile before realizing my numbers would never get under control eating this way. Still, many diabetics eat this way daily, simply because their doctor said so. My doctor tells me to check fasting blood sugars only....but I test 4-5 times a day most days, as this is how I know what my #s are after different meals. We have to do what gives us the best results, as its our lives that we're affecting. I like the commercial on D-TV that says "test, don't guess." Regular testing is the best thing you can do for yourself.

When first diagnosed, I kept a food journal, writing down every bite I put in my mouth and the corresponding 2 hr reading. I soon had a collection of "blood-sugar friendly" foods and it was much easier for me to pack my lunch or order out, as I knew what I could safely eat.

I think we as diabetics have to find the way of eating that works for us, something we can live with long-term (as we're in it for the long haul) that will give us good blood sugar control.

Instead of trying to find the "magic number" of carbs that you should eat, i'd suggest you eat "by your meter," finding what works for you and sticking with it.

We all have the same goal of good control, we just use different ways of reaching that goal. You'll find the way that works best for you.

Get the book "The First Year, Type II Diabetes," by Gretchen Becker. It has lots of good information and is a worth-while read.

[Lloyd]

There really is a lot of room in between what the ADA says and what Bernstien says.

Find what works for you!

-Lloyd

[xMenace]

One of the arguments they (xDA's, dieticians, and doctors) use is that high protein diets damage our kidneys and we can't afford that. I've yet to find any "proof" of this. If anyone has any, one way or the other, please share it.

One example:
Bodybuilding FAQ - Protein and Kidney Damage
Q. Is Eating a High Protein Diet Damaging To Your Kidney Health?
From Hugo Rivera,
Your Guide to Bodybuilding.

Very often I am asked if eating the amount of protein required of a bodybuilding diet will lead to kidney damage. This FAQ will answer this question and hopefully put all of your fears to rest.

A. Fact is that there are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. Only people who already have a pre-existing kidney condition need to be concerned with keeping their protein in check.

[HelenM]

One of the arguments they (xDA's, dieticians, and doctors) use is that high protein diets damage our kidneys and we can't afford that. I've yet to find any "proof" of this. If anyone has any, one way or the other, please share it.

Could find very little real evidence on high protein diets.

There were these statements in an article in one diabetes journal

High protein intakes cause higher workloads for kidneys, whose function is to handle amino acid fragments during protein degradation and excrete nitrogen as urea.

There is no research documenting that a high-protein diet maintains weight reduction any better than a low-fat diet, which is safer and offers long-term results.

Safety and efficacy of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets are a concern for patients with diabetes, regardless of documented kidney disease

Case Study: Man With Type 2 Diabetes and Stage 1 Kidney Disease on Atkins-Like Diet -- Thomas-Dobersen and Casey 23 (1): 46 -- Clinical Diabetes

I also found this inconclusive analysis of available research into restriction of protein and existing diabetic kidney disease.

Plain language summary
Effects of protein restriction for diabetic renal disease are unclear.

Based on 12 studies, including from eight to 160 people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes for at least an average four-month period, restricted protein intake appeared to slow progression of diabetic kidney disease, but not by much on average. However, individual variation existed, therefore a low-protein diet may benefit some individuals. A low-protein diet can be difficult to adhere to, especially over the long term. Reducing the amount of animal protein is the usual method but some evidence suggests that a shift from red meat to white meat and fish or vegetables may give similar results. We found no data on the effects of low-protein diet on health-related quality of life and costs

Protein restriction for diabetic renal disease

[xMenace]

Thanks, that case study is a very interesting read. The case study is basically a setup for a lengthy commentary on low carb, high protein diets.

I'll continue on my low protein path while hopefully continuing to reduce carbs. It's almost time to put the garden in

[lauricags]

I just joined this group not because I have diabetes, but because my work involves helping people that do. I received a "Google Alert" for Low Carb / ADA and clicked onto a post by Janke at this site. She was upset that the ADA recommends a carb rich diet for people with diabetes. She is right to be upset.

Janke I commend you for your courage to question your doctor & the ADA and I would like to offer you several resources that may help you. First, see the Nutrition & Metabolism Society website and browse the diabetes section. It is loaded with valuable resources to help you improve your health. It includes the latest science on carb restriction for people with diabetes. This is real science - current research from the leading scientists in the field of nutrition. Science that for unknown reasons is not being formally recognized by the ADA and other large governing organizations. Science that will improve the quality of your life dramatically!
Second, get a copy of Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and read it cover to cover.
All the best to you !
Lauricags

[davef]

Janke,

The early days can sure be overwhelming and you do need to allow yourself some time and space to get accustomed to your new lifestyle.

I think it is great that you have decided to test test test, it really is the best way to find out what works for you.

I do watch my carbs, I'm in the camp of the Atkins plan, I just found out what works for me and have over the past 5 months developed a varied menu that is good to me and my BG.

I would also recommend the book Linda mentioned, I got it and found that it was easy to read and very informative. For me, the fact that it was written by a diabetic carried a lot of weight.

It's great that you have found this forum, the people are all so helpful, supportive and are always here for you, you just got a BIG new family. I don't know what I would do without DF and attribute a lot of my success in getting my BG under control to the people here.

[rzrbks]

Mr. Suspenders AND Belt here: imHo

1) you have to find out what works best for YOU

B) I plan on living "Real Easy" up until I die, then I'll slow down even more---translated, I'm going to take the safest path I can find that works for ME

3th) I have great respect for my brain and its uses........and....since brains need carbs soooo much more than steak and eggs, I'll keep feeding my brain.

quatre) Find out what makes you Comfortable, Happy and Safe, then stick to that.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by rzrbks

Find out what makes you Comfortable, Happy and Safe, then stick to that.

...so long as you remain flexible enough to consider changing what works for you as you discover more facts or more about yourself or if your D progresses

[Alice]

I was diagnosed in second grade and at that time was given a bright, colorful "picture book" of diabetic food exchanges and portion sizes...

Honestly, in the 43 years since, I haven't followed an "ADA" plan...or any plan other than eating fairly normal in the healthy sense. I'm not a "low carber" or a "high carber"...just someone who has found that eating a normal size portion of any food...or skipping any food...works for me.

A food plan immediately puts "restrictions" into the mind of any newly diagnosed patient. I was lucky to have doctors as a young child who worked in the real world. I think diabetes educators are a "new industry" in the field of diabetes and serve an important area. But, to teach a restricted diet doesn't work for me...and is irresponsible if the correlation between carbs and glucose is not explained. Explained honestly. A healthy carb will cause a rise just as a Krispy Kreme...often more of a rise. So, there has to be a honest approach to any "food plan". The "avoid sugar" advice is such a farce and is quite outdated. What meds are taken...and taken at correct doses for food chosen...is a much more responsible way to teach.

It's a very individual approach.

[RobiJo]

Originally Posted by Alice

Explained honestly. A healthy carb will cause a rise just as a Krispy Kreme...often more of a rise. So, there has to be a honest approach to any "food plan". The "avoid sugar" advice is such a farce and is quite outdated. What meds are taken...and taken at correct doses for food chosen...is a much more responsible way to teach.

It's a very individual approach.

The old brownie or potato debate. It's a hard habit for the medical field to break.

[Alice]

You're right RobiJo...and it's something I just don't understand. Unless they don't want the info to be taught. It's something like a religion...diabetes...info is power. My feeling is that old wives tales continue to be taught to "modern graduates" of the medical field.