[PERKDOUG]

Oh, the subject is not your body mass index. The subject is fat in the diet. The posts indicate many of you are on a low fat diet which implies a fear of fat in the diet. There is a constant bantor over the carbohydrates as there should be, since errors in carbohydrate metabolism is at the heart of diabetes. Fat is not discussed enough. This leaves the newbe visitor to the wedside with a blind spot in the dietary of the diabetic. Therefore, I wish to start a discussion that is summerized by the following conjecture:

The end point in most successfull diabetic diets is to, as much as possible, replace carbohydrate calories with fat calories. Only through this substitution can the diabetic achieve reasonable glycemic control and also have sufficient calorie intake to power his body.

You guys and gals may find this boring.

[shutterbug]

Originally Posted by PERKDOUG

You guys and gals may find this boring.

Well.. not really. I'm on a low carb diet but I don't really eat low fat. My last lipids came back with good results. I'm 1/2 below the higher end of the normal range in all lipids.
(except for good chol.)

[fgummett]

Fat should be your friend... so long as it is a "good" fat like Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO), Avocados, oily fishes like Salmon, or as found in nuts. These help to slow the release of carbs and even-out the BS spikes, AND (importantly for me) they keep you feeling full for longer

[Debbie Sue]

With my high cholesterol, I need to watch it on the bad fats. The ones mentioned in fgummet's post are th ones I lean towards, in moderation.

[PERKDOUG]

I say let them eat steak.

[xMenace]

Originally Posted by Debbie Sue

With my high cholesterol, I need to watch it on the bad fats. The ones mentioned in fgummet's post are th ones I lean towards, in moderation.

I believe the only truly bad fat is trans-fat.

I also bhere is no convincing evidence that says high saturated fats or high cholesterol foods actually impact your bodily cholesterol.

I too lean towards Frank's list, but I will eat just about any meat in small portions. I do not generally buy low fat products.

----

As to the original point, I think replacing refined carbs with anything is good. More and more I am choosing fruits and veggies over fats. I am in weight loss mode. Fat's high calories are on my watch list.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by PERKDOUG

You guys and gals may find this boring.

Not in the least. There's been much conjecture among DF members that high-fat is the way to go. (Yes, fats should be "good". The same is true of carbohydrates, though!)

Prior to DX, I'd been living off cheese... probably eating half a pound per day, on average. I was scared silly that I'd have terrible lipids when that test was run 4-5 months post-DX -- at the end of Aug 2007.

Result?

HDL = 48, total = 110, triglycerides = 26

I'll probably have the so-called "executive profile" -- liver, lipids, kidneys, thyroid, etc. -- run yearly-ish... I'm due for a blood draw 3 Jul, which I plan to be for A1c and c-peptide. (I want to establish a "baseline" for endogenous insulin, if I have any.) Come Oct or Nov, I'll see what my lipids have done, now that I can actually use carbohydrates.

Originally Posted by fgummett

Fat should be your friend... so long as it is a "good" fat like Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO), Avocados, oily fishes like Salmon, or as found in nuts. These help to slow the release of carbs and even-out the BS spikes, AND (importantly for me) they keep you feeling full for longer

And they're pretty [insert favorite expletive for adverb effect] tasty.

[soso]

does anyone else here who has been on low carb for a few years find that their taste for fat and meat has diminished? I used to chow it down, but I'm like John now, I lean toward the fruits and veggies and find I am a bit turned off by big hunks of meat...even my beloved whipping cream is not calling to me the way it used to....

[dbc]

Originally Posted by Debbie Sue

With my high cholesterol, I need to watch it on the bad fats. The ones mentioned in fgummet's post are th ones I lean towards, in moderation.

Different folks, different strokes. . . . I've been lo-carbing for 3 years now & my cholesterol profile is good (total chol 5.1). My wife, who's ben eating pretty much the same as me, has just been checked out at 7.5! So lo-carb/hi fat doesn't suit everybody. Her doctor reckons cholesterol is "50% genes, 50% hamburgers....." Fortunately she doesn't have to worry about high BS!

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by dbc

.... I've been lo-carbing for 3 years now & my cholesterol profile is good (total chol 5.1). My wife, who's ben eating pretty much the same as me, has just been checked out at 7.5! So lo-carb/hi fat doesn't suit everybody. Her doctor reckons cholesterol is "50% genes, 50% hamburgers....." ...

80%+ of your cholesterol is made by your liver. Something is making your wife's liver make more cholesterol than yours does. But what she eats has very little to do with it. The more cholesterol you eat, the less cholesterol your liver makes.

[HelenM]

The end point in most successfull diabetic diets is to, as much as possible, replace carbohydrate calories with fat calories. Only through this substitution can the diabetic achieve reasonable glycemic control and also have sufficient calorie intake to power his body

A phrase designed to be polemic!
Not what I do, I realise this is in the type 2 section but the phrase just says diabetic. I'm late onset type 1.5, diagnosed 3 yeas ago.
I do restrict animal fats, and to a certain amount protein. I tend to eat fats derived from vegetables, fish and occasionally duck. (the 'good' fats)
Carbs come from: less refined cereals, lots of vegetables (including potatoes and legumes), fruit. I count and control carbohydrates from all sources eating carbs according to my needs, I'm fairly active and the more active I am, the more carbs I eat. I use insulin to match carb intake.(actually, the more active, the more carbs, the less insulin I seem to need!)

I don't eat many foods containing sucrose or sugar substitutes or refined white flour.

HBA1c have been within non diabetic ranges. LDL OK, HDL good and has risen on each test since diagnosis. I also seem to have reversed the formation of plaque in my femoral artery, its lessened since diagnosis. So for me this diet works and I'm certainly not prepared to risk following the low carb, high fat/protein route.( ie the ditch the carbs and substitute it with eggs bacon and full fat cream a la Atkins and Bernstein)

[shabbie]

Originally Posted by fgummett

Fat should be your friend... so long as it is a "good" fat like Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO), Avocados, oily fishes like Salmon, or as found in nuts. These help to slow the release of carbs and even-out the BS spikes, AND (importantly for me) they keep you feeling full for longer

[volleyball]

Store food with the words LOW FAT should scare us away. While a small percentage of stuff low fat is that, fat remove only, mostly dairy stuff, the general stuff replaces the fat with bad carbs. The wrong way to go. I consume mostly leaner meats, too much animal fat follows the rule too much of a good thing is bad for you.
Higher fat and protein goes well with muscular people. I don't mean body builders. I mean people who can find their muscles.

As for the guy whose wife has higher cholesterol, I bet it is the refined carbs causing it, not the meat.

[georgepds]

The extremes are Ornish (ultra low fat diet) and Bernstein ( ultra low carb diet, and, possibly, high fat)


My personal observation is a high fat meal does not cause a large in crease in BG, consistent with the low glycemic rating of fats

[MJB]

I will give up my BBQ baby back ribs and charcoal grilled ribeye steaks when you pry my grilling tongs from my cold, dead fingers!