[PERKDOUG]

The postings of new type 2 recruits show a similar pattern of starting high A1c measures with a doctor's diet of 100+ carbs a day with a less than stellar A1c next visit. This appears to be a wimps prescription for fast relief from high blood sugar. Has anyone used or been prescribed a "cold turkey" regimen of fasting for 1 or 2 days to knock the **** out of the blood sugar and insulin resistance allowing a "hit the ground running" start to the diabetic life style. This approach was used in certain diet clinics many years ago. I like those **** inserted above. The word starts with h. This transcript filter would have **** transcribng the bible.

[Scrabblechick]

I'd say the average prescription would be closer to 160-plus carbs per day. I shoot for about 100 carbs per day and you can see in my signature what my follow-up A1C was.

A fasting approach would not be helpful. A short-term insulin regimen for those with extremely high BG levels would be more therapeutic. This is because, in the absence of food, the diabetic liver will start dumping glucose as an emergency response, spiking the BG that much higher. Many who experience the Dawn Phenomenon can attest to this fact.

A better approach, IMHO, for those with the really elevated A1C levels is the aforementioned insulin, and less dependence on the ADA dietary guidelines. Those guidelines are a place to start, but most diabetics, particularly T2, cannot handle that many carbs. Also, putting someone on an extremely restrictive diet right out of the gate is apt to produce even more stress in someone who is already totally freaked out by their DX.

While the cold turkey method is certainly recommended for those who suffer from substance abuse, the D is a completely different animal and such approaches are rarely effective.

[davef]

Nope, I believe that many Doctor's still haven't grasped or don't believe in telling diabetics to watch/reduce carbs.

However I also don't believe that a cold turkey start would be a good thing. The days after DX can be an emotional roller coaster, filled with shock, guilt, anger and denial. So telling somebody who is experiencing this to starve for two days would not really help them, rather it may scare the living daylights out of them, when they are trying to come to terms with begining a new lifestyle. For me, the idea of these radical diets are not ideal for (anyone) somebody trying to learn a new healthier lifestyle.

Just my two cents worth,

[CaptainMike]

I don't know that fasting would work, I have a difficult DP to cope with, but if I don't eat breakfast my BG will continue to rise and rise until I eat something. I had a stomach flu last year and couldn't keep food down for 72 hours or so, but my BG just kept going up and up (over 300) (Liver dumping I assume) until I ran out of stores and ended up with a BG of 40 and on my way to the ER for IV fluids/glucose.

[princesslinda]

Like Mike, if I don't eat, my blood sugar continues to go up, so I don't think fasting would have worked for me

When first diagnosed, my A1C was 9.6....I immediately started an exercise regimen, 500 mg metformin twice daily and low carb diet...2nd A1C was 6.2, 3rd was 5.3 and I've stayed n the 5's until my last one (which was done just after I had shingles).

[fgummett]

Fasting puts the body into famine/conservation mode and slows down the metabolism; so when you do start eating again, more of it goes to fat... it's how they fatten up pigs! Geez maybe you think we need a short sharp shock fat camp for the newly diagnosed... as if the Dx isn't overwhelming enough already I think you need to seriously work on your empathy skills

I do like the idea of a more aggressive approach immediately after Dx, instead of the wait and see, gradually ramp up, that is so often used. The early use of insulin to help gain good BS control quickly, has proven effective in some studies.

[moorejames]

Don't know about the rest of you, but when I was diagnosed, I was afraid to much of anything in my mouth for weeks anyway.

Not exactly a fast, but I was definitely restricting the carbs - just not necessarily on purpose.

[PERKDOUG]

Thanks for the responses. I was hoping someone that had tried it would respond. It is interesting to know that very insulin resistant type-2's can hypo on this protocol. I've done a 1 day fast for a colonoscopy. Therefore, I presumed it was safe, but apparently not. As to the psychology regarding the idea, it might allow the diabetic to feel they are doing something quick and significant to lower blood sugar, therefore getting some control of the problem. It must be awful eating 150+ carbs a day, as directed and watching the meter very slowly dribble downward each day.

[slipperyelm]

You are asking about fasting not just carbohydrate avoidance, right? And the goal of that would be to knock down the blood glucose really quickly?

There used to be a participant in these forums who is from Sweden. She said that in Sweden type 2s are coached to bring down their blood glucose in a tapered fashion, not rapidly. She said that fast achievements of lowered BG were related to increased vascular breaks in the eye! If this is true, that would be a reason not to fast to bring down BGs in a newly diagnosed T2.

And in fact, many T2s find they cannot function normally when they bring their BGs down too quickly. They have all the symptoms of hypoglycemia at hyperglycemic levels. I certainly experienced that myself. So, for example, they may feel hypo at 145 and actually have to treat with a measured amount of glucose. (I have always suspected that many people who have never experienced this do not really believe it.)

Also, a fast causes the body to break down muscle to provide glucose for the brain and vital functions. The last thing T2s need is to lose muscle.

How about you, PERKDOUG? Did you go straight from a high carb diet to a zero carb diet?

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by slipperyelm

So, for example, they may feel hypo at 145 and actually have to treat with a measured amount of glucose. (I have always suspected that many people who have never experienced this do not really believe it.)

I believe it because I've gone through it a few times. It doesn't take long for it to happen either. My BG numbers have been rising lately to up around 135 for fasting and 175 for spikes. It's only been there for about a week.

I took a Prandin one day when I was at my mother's house, since I was going to eat some foods that I don't normally eat, and I wasn't able to take my Byetta. When I got home that night, I went to test my BG levels, and I had a hard time trying to hold my finger still while I pressed the test strip against it. The herky jerky movements were coming from a low BG level, but the meter said the level was 99. It wasn't a hypo, but it was a lot lower than I had been all week.

I had been in the 90's the week before, so it didn't take long for my body to adjust to the higher levels. I was surprised that it took such a short time to adjust to the high levels so that a reading of 99 was low enough to give me the shakes.

[PERKDOUG]

Reply to Slipperyelm who asks:

How about you, PERKDOUG? Did you go straight from a high carb diet to a zero carb diet?

Using a BS meter, I spiked above normal on a high carb meal test. That caused a change to the low carb life style but not to a zero carb level. I am an old man (65) and have type 2 on both sides of the family. I became interested in diabetes as a result of studying weight loss diets, heart disease and lipid science. You do research in one area and it leads to another related area. I branched into diabetes when I noticed in the research that heart disease has a high association with diabetes. The web makes this easy to do if you like to read research on line. I perform diet experiments on myself. Those of you that suffer from obesity should follow my example of reading. I have become thin with almost no effort after reading countless research papers and diet books. I crafted a diet for a neighbor and he was dumfounded how fast he lost weight but he only wanted to lose about 15 pounds. It's a hobby with a useful outcome for myself and family.

I have come here to learn more about the disease from the people that know the most, the victims. With my quirky writing style, I may wear out my welcome on the site.

[volleyball]

Any diet that you stick to will lead to weight loss. A novel idea to jump start it but since we are issue of regulation, it is counterproductive.
I went from a high bad carb diet to a low no bad carb diet and my numbers plummeted. I was at a loss for energy that I never noticed any hypo type feeling. I was too busy feeling better.
Eating more often seems to be an accepted method of control so that eliminates fasting as a good method.
Since you are worried about not writing things well enough as to not get kicked out of the cool kids table, your web research may lead you to online writing skills training. I am not complaining about your writing, just suggesting a way to improve on something you are worried about

[slipperyelm]

I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary about your writing style, PerkDoug, but now I might [i]try[/I to notice because of your having mentioned it. Most of us use a fairly conversational style here. People will be "themselves" in conversation, so your own idiosyncratic style probably will not stand out. No need to feel self-conscious.

I did not realize you were not diabetic. Because you mention learning about diabetes in connection with other interests, I looked at the notation under your user name which says you are a "spouse, significant other." It does look like you have personal interest in diabetes, then. Yeah, if my spouse or any kind of significant other had a chronic disease, you can bet I would be learning all about it!