[matingara]

Originally Posted by RedRD

If I can be nosey, what are your cholesterol and triglycerides running?

Red, i can tell you that Franks lipids are fabulous. he told me so.

i have the lipids of an olympic athlete (see below). i make no effort to reduce/restrict intake of fat and protein (eggs, bacon, sausages, steak, chicken, fish, cheese, butter, cream, dark-chocolate (at least 70% cocoa).

i do make an effort to limit carbohydrate intake.

i don't give a flying rat's clacker whether they are complex or simple carbohydrates. they are all, every last one of them, sugar.



-- Joel.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by RedRD

If I can be nosey, what are your cholesterol and triglycerides running?

Not at all nosey... I have already posted them here in other threads:

my last blood work was taken after a 12 hour fast on the morning of 14th November 2008:
A1c 5.0%
Triglycerides 60.23 mg/dl
HDL-C 42.08 mg/dl
LDL-C 71.43 mg/dl
Total-C 3.24
Total-C/HDL-C Ratio 3.0
Triglycerides/HDL-C Ratio 0.6

And I eat pretty much the same as Joel has described above. I don't count calories, I don't limit fats or protein, but I make a conscious effort to minimise my carbs

The thing you need to understand; is that for me the improved BG levels, lipids and weight loss are just icing on the cake (if I can use a food metaphor )... for me the single biggest plus of very low carb eating is that I am no longer hungry all the time and finally feel that I am back in control of my body again.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by findave

I've got the impression from this forum that the kind of BG levels that many people in the US appear to live with without apparent worry seem to me to be quite startlingly high.

Thanks Dave.

I'm not sure that this is just a US issue but I have commented here several times; how our various health establishments like to keep extra-tight control on our lipids and BP while simultaneously allowing us to sail along with higher than normal BG levels - which incidentally contribute to deranged lipids and high BP! - so much so that there seems to be a different idea of a "normal" BG level if you have D

[Keni]

i have the lipids of an olympic athlete (see below). i make no effort to reduce/restrict intake of fat and protein (eggs, bacon, sausages, steak, chicken, fish, cheese, butter, cream, dark-chocolate (at least 70% cocoa).

-- Joel.[/quote]

Could I ask how you maintain the lipids of an Olympic athlete?? I am very curious to know how you keep your bad cholesterol so low. I have tried a lot of things. I work out very intensively about 4 days a week and I eat very healthy. I try to keep a vegan and mostly raw diet for the most part. I am still learning how to tune the Pump that I just got a few months ago but my bad cholesterol is about a 100 and my good cholesterol I am very proud to say is 74. My triglycerides are 44 so I am happy with that. My endo doesn't think I need to worry about my cholesterol and I have beg him to get it checked with my 3 months A1c. He says that once I get my sugars to be below 7, the bad cholesterol numbers will be lower too... So if I may seek you advice... I WANT an Olympic athlete's lipids!!

[Evermont]

Originally Posted by ned

... i still have that feeling of not being satisfied...

It seems likely that some people have a condition which effectively impairs the function of certain hormones such as ghrelin or leptin.

Ghrelin is a hormone produced mainly by P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the human stomach and epsilon cells of the pancreas that stimulates appetite.[1] Ghrelin levels increase before meals and decrease after meals. It is considered the counterpart of the hormone leptin, produced by adipose tissue, which induces satiation when present at higher levels. In some bariatric procedures, the level of ghrelin is reduced in patients, thus causing satiation before it would normally occur.

Ghrelin is also produced in the hypothalamic arcuate nucleus, where it stimulates the secretion of growth hormone from the anterior pituitary gland.[2]. Receptors for ghrelin are expressed by neurons in the arcuate nucleus and the ventromedial hypothalamus. The ghrelin receptor is a G protein-coupled receptor, formerly known as the GHS receptor (growth hormone secretagogue receptor)....

(link)

If the system is seriously discombabulated this may not help as much - but for normally functioning people, it can help to eat a fist full of raw almonds 1/2 hour prior to meals to kick start the "I'm full" signal.

[Rad Warrier]

Originally Posted by Evermont

It seems likely that some people have a condition which effectively impairs the function of certain hormones such as ghrelin or leptin.



If the system is seriously discombabulated this may not help as much - but for normally functioning people, it can help to eat a fist full of raw almonds 1/2 hour prior to meals to kick start the "I'm full" signal.

I have a gut feeling that type2 diabetes is ultimately a result of some disorder of the complex biochemical signalling that goes within our bodies. The reason for this disorder may be genetic, and/or environmental. The impairment of the signalling raises our insulin resistance, which results in higer insulin levels, and finally, over a period of time, leading to high blood sugar levels. In the end this high blood sugar (and also perhaps the earlier high insulin levels) result in the progressive 'frying' of the insulin producing beta cells. We can prevent 'frying of the beta cells' if we try early enough to tackle the original problem, i.e., the increasing insulin resistance, by means of exercise and diet. My gut feeling again tells me that the goodness of natural foods (read micro nutrients) such as fruits, nuts and vegetables (and even whole grains in moderation) will help in (a) improving the original impairment of signalling, (b) improving overall health and (c) the improved signalling and the improved overall health leading to improved insulin sensitivity. I may be wrong, but until proven otherwise, I would like to hold on to this belief .

Regards,
Rad

[fgummett]

With all due respect Rad, I would rather base my life-choices on more than "gut feeling" and "belief" But I do agree that earlier action is better in respect to long-term control of Type 2 Diabetes.

And while I also advocate unprocessed "whole" foods... fruit is high is sugar, so no matter what benefits it may have in the way of micro-nutrients, it will still affect BG levels.

[Rad Warrier]

Originally Posted by fgummett

With all due respect Rad, I would rather base my life-choices on more than "gut feeling" and "belief" But I do agree that earlier action is better in respect to long-term control of Type 2 Diabetes.

And while I also advocate unprocessed "whole" foods... fruit is high is sugar, so no matter what benefits it may have in the way of micro-nutrients, it will still affect BG levels.

Frank, I do agree with you that food high in sugar, even fruits, have the potential to do more harm than good in advanced stages of diabetes. But when tackling diabetes at its earliest stages, natural whole foods like fruits and even whole grain should definitely be beneficial in moderation.

Regards,
Rad

[fgummett]

Rad, I'm sure you mean eating raw whole fruits, but let me give you an example of where this "fresh fruits must be good for you" idea can lead: I was recently in a mall and walked past a Mother with her toddler... they both had adult-sized fruit smoothies/shakes from a nearby juice bar. Now, I have no doubt that Mother was thinking that she was doing the absolute best by her child... all those vitamins, macro and micro-nutrients, anti-oxidants, phyto-chemicals AND all that very quickly absorbed sugar.

What kind of a challenge do you think that presents to a child's BG management system..? OK, maybe once in a while no problem... but what I see are children being constantly challenged with such high sugar loads (eat 8- 10 servings every day!)... it seems to me that something has to finally give out... unfortunately - I suspect - it is too often the pancreas that loses.

Perhaps it was different when and where you grew up, but in the UK in the '60s and '70s, I only ever saw oranges as a Christmas treat, and we certainly did not have year round access to so much fresh fruits... strawberries in February!

And let us not forget what wild strawberries look like... nothing like the large plump extra-sweet versions that have been bred for our pleasure - not for our health... using plenty of chemical fertilizers, pesticides and nutrient-poor soil.

[fgummett]

Just to rephrase... Rad you are right that moderation is a key... unfortunately that is not the message being sent... "eat 8-10 servings of fresh fruits and vegetables every day"... in other words "more is better". But, as I implied above, the industrially produced food that now lines our store shelves is less nutritious than ever - yes even the fruit - so to get at all those good micro-nutrients, we end up having to eat more of the bad sugar-laden "packaging".

I guess my suggestion for eating fruit is to buy local produce (preferably organically grown) and in season only

[huskerdaughter]

i know how you feel i get that a lot too. ive learned to ignore it. but with your diabites be careful you said you were still eating after you were full. Just watch what you eat as it can raise you sugars (if you have that problem). Sorry i cant help you or give you ideas the best i can say is what i do and thats ignore it.

Huskerdaughter

[matingara]

Originally Posted by Keni

Could I ask how you maintain the lipids of an Olympic athlete?? I am very curious to know how you keep your bad cholesterol so low. I have tried a lot of things. I work out very intensively about 4 days a week and I eat very healthy. I try to keep a vegan and mostly raw diet for the most part. I am still learning how to tune the Pump that I just got a few months ago but my bad cholesterol is about a 100 and my good cholesterol I am very proud to say is 74. My triglycerides are 44 so I am happy with that. My endo doesn't think I need to worry about my cholesterol and I have beg him to get it checked with my 3 months A1c. He says that once I get my sugars to be below 7, the bad cholesterol numbers will be lower too... So if I may seek you advice... I WANT an Olympic athlete's lipids!!

i had my tongue firmly in cheek when i typed this remark. and i was also channeling "Bernstein" - but - yeah they are pretty good, n'est-ce pas?

over the last 15 years my cholesterol has always been OK - not great. my triglycerides have been shocking (like 1000 or so - at times).

of course, the Doctor prescribed pills. rosuvastatin (crestor) and fenofibrate (lipidil). these helped somewhat.

when i adopted a very low carb diet 15 months ago my numbers improved drastically.

of course, the Doctor is only gradually cutting back on my meds. he doesn't want to do it all at once.

so now i have a low carb diet and some residual meds. that is probably why the numbers are so low. i am not sure that super low lipids are that good actually. but surely better than high...

so i cut WAY down on carbs. i eat bigger portions of meats and fish. lots of green veggies (cabbage, broccoli, spinach etc), i snack on cheese.

the idea that your lipids will increase if you eat a lot of fat and protein is simply not true for a lot of people. like me.



-- Joel.

[Rad Warrier]

Originally Posted by fgummett

Just to rephrase... Rad you are right that moderation is a key... [/i]

Yes Frank, moderation is the key to success in every field of life.

More than two thousand five hundred years ago, prince Siddhartha Gautama, better known as the Buddha (the enlightened one) elucidated the importance of the 'madhya marga', the middle path - which is nothing but moderation in everything. Almost contemporary to the Buddha was Mahavira (who came to be known as 'Jina' or the victorious and his followers as Jaina, or the Jains) who elucidated the importance of 'ahimsa' or non-violence.

I am not a Buddhist or a Jain. I am socially a Hindu, but by 'religion' an agnostic (i.e., one who says he does not know if god exists or not, and cares less either way.) At the same time, I hold the principles of ahimsa and moderation close to my heart. The Buddha and the Jina were not bringing forth any new ideas that were not part of the philosophical framework of the society they were born in. They just made these pre-existing principles a principal part of their philosophical preachings. And I am sure elsewhere in the world too, great souls would have preached these principles to the masses.

Regards,
Rad

[jkane13]

"Hunger" is real. Not everyone knows what it is, but I think almost every person over 250 lbs knows exactly what it means. If you've never felt it, you can not understand it! And I don't mean, hunger as in I am hungry, I mean the kind where you roam from cupboard to cupboard and to the fridge, an then back to the cupboard. Nothing sounds good, but you have to eat something! It's not logical, but it is real. When it happens every day, all day long, you start to think you are crazy!

There are chemical signals that your body produces and your brain should recognize. One of these is the feeling of your stomach being full. One of the symptoms of hunger is this chemical is not recognized.

When it can't see this switch turn off, your brain starts telling you to eat. It does not know what it is you should eat, but you are just hungry and will search for food without knowing why.

There are some prescription drugs that have off label side effects that help increase this switch. But, they are not long term effective. Most doctors are reluctant to give you them. The best was called Redux. A few years ago, it was prescribed in the wrong way. I used it, and it was tremendous! I lost 50 lbs with it in like 3 months. I just was not hungry, and about half way through a meal,
i would not be hungry at all and was able to stop eating. But, those whinny people who wanted to loose 10 or 20 lbs got their over paid doctors to prescribe it for them. The problem was it had a fatal side effect. Some people developed heart mur-murs. This is why it was not supposed to be given to just anyone. You had to weigh the life threat of being 100 lbs overweight and dying from a heart attack, vs taking a chance on heart mur-mur! The drug was pulled from the market, and a law suit has kept it from coming back.

Redux is also known as Phen-Phen. There are still Phen's available. But they are not quite as effective and not good for long term usage. I am currently taking phentermine. It helps with the recognition of being full, but doesn't remove the hunger all the way. I am using it as a way to train my body to recognize the difference between need for food, and hunger for the sake of hunger. If you are not familiar, these are more commonly called amphetamines. Weight loss is just a side effect, not the primary purpose.

Good luck. Hunger is not something you can just wish away.