Does this sound weird to anyone?

Cain · #1 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 07:28 AM

I have been kicking this around ever since I became a diabetic and I was curious what anyone elses thoughts are.

So I find out I am a diabetic, basic symptoms I was asked included did you notice any strange weight loss. Yup, sure did. Ok, then they tell me , thats not good, so we start on the meds which stop the weight loss, and then, I am told it helps to lose weight to control the diabetes

Did anyone else when they found out and was losing weight because of the diabetes find this kind of strange? Maybe its just me.

stinastina · #2 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 07:37 AM

I agree with you - it's a Catch 22. The meds they put you on either stall weight loss or add weight to you, when, if you could lose weight, you may be able to halt your diabetes.

I think there is too much money out there to be made from diabetes meds, diabetes complications and hospitalizations and procedures. This is why no one bothers to make a medicine that will actually help us in the long run.

deercotn · #3 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:12 AM

I lost 30 lbs-- went from 225 to 195. This scared me to death. Finally went to doc. Dx as type 2.

Went on meds and started gaining some of the weight back-- which I wanted to do. I'm 6'2" and just felt a little thin.

If you're overweight, lose 10%. If you're not overweight, don't worry about it. My doc told me I'd already lost mine....

Controlling diabetes has nothing to do with your weight or weight loss.....

but it is important to exercise one way or the other. Exercise helps your body produce insulin.

Some meds will cause you to gain weight so it can become a battle. Just takes your meds, watch your diet, and exercise. If you do this, hopefully the weight issue will take care of itself.

bunbury · #4 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deercotn

If you're overweight, lose 10%. If you're not overweight, don't worry about it. My doc told me I'd already lost mine....

Controlling diabetes has nothing to do with your weight or weight loss.....

10%! Why? Where did this come from? It's bad advice.

Weight has a great deal to with it - the more overweight you are, the harder your pancreas is working and the sooner it will pack up.

If you need to loose 25%, loose it. Don't stop at 10% - aim for something approximating to a normal BMI (not a perfect measure, but a useful guide).

Runnaway weight loss caused by uncontrolled diabetes is a different issue.

Subby · #5 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cain

I have been kicking this around ever since I became a diabetic and I was curious what anyone elses thoughts are.

So I find out I am a diabetic, basic symptoms I was asked included did you notice any strange weight loss. Yup, sure did. Ok, then they tell me , thats not good, so we start on the meds which stop the weight loss, and then, I am told it helps to lose weight to control the diabetes

Did anyone else when they found out and was losing weight because of the diabetes find this kind of strange? Maybe its just me.

When you have unchecked diabetes (whatever the type) your blood glucose may reach a high point where you start to produce ketones. This can cause fast weight loss in a dangerous and unhealthy way. It is not far off diabetic ketoacidosis.

That's what the original question would have been, whether you were in, or had been in, a ketotic state when diagnosed. It's an indicator of unchecked diabetes.

That weight loss you want to stop. So any meds or, lets extend that to any diet or lifestyle modifications that stabilise your blood sugars and prevent these ketones, could be said to "stop" this problem and the resultant weight loss.

As for the medication then helping you lose weight, it would be referring to losing weight while maintaining healthy BGs. One of the problems a type 2 diabetic might face is an excess of insulin, which is a fat storage hormone. So certain drugs like metformin which reduce the amount of glucose in your bloodstream, reducing the need for insulin, might help the body lose weight. Others I do not know the details but they will have a specific function.

Understanding what's going on comes down to better education - which should be forthcoming from them, but also should be pursued by you. I recommend seeking out answers for each med or solution as to exactly what it is doing, how it is doing it and why that's a benefit.

stinastina · #6 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:54 AM

I'm on actos and if I even look at food, I gain weight. But it does a good job WITH januvia at keeping my bg levels down. My last HA1c was 7 and in March it was 11.

foxl · #7 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:30 AM

Actos can do that ... I seem to have leveled off in weight.

Cain I just want to say that pre-dx weight loss was one reason I pursued testing for autoimmune diabetes -- c-peptide and GAD-65 antibodies. Glad I did. It may be mixed-type (ie some insulin resistance) but I now know I also have T1.

stinastina · #8 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxl

Actos can do that ... I seem to have leveled off in weight.

Cain I just want to say that pre-dx weight loss was one reason I pursued testing for autoimmune diabetes -- c-peptide and GAD-65 antibodies. Glad I did. It may be mixed-type (ie some insulin resistance) but I now know I also have T1.

Not to highjack this thread, but can you tell me more about autoimmune diabetes ?

foxl · #9 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:54 AM

Type 1 or LADA -- Latent Autoimmune Diabetes of Adulthood.

Review the type 1.5 forum stuff, and then ask ... or read Blood Sugar 101 ...

Seems to be caused by a couple things (maybe in combination?). Coxsackie virus B has a protein sequence similar to GAD-65, an enzyme found in the thyroid and in beta cells of the pancreas. So T lymphocytes make antibodies in response to the virus, which attack those organs/tissues.

In addition, Vitamin D is somehow implicated in the preservaton of beta cells, among other parts of the whole glucose metabolic system. That is all the farther I have gotten in reading about it ...

MCS · #10 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:59 AM

I too lost weight with Type 2, muscles no longer had fuel to burn due to high BG and either lack of insulin or insulin resistance, so they turn on themselves as a survival mechanism. Your wasting muscle not fat.

foxl · #11 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

I too lost weight with Type 2, muscles no longer had fuel to burn due to high BG and either lack of insulin or insulin resistance, so they turn on themselves as a survival mechanism. Your wasting muscle not fat.

Yes, T2s can go ketotic or ketoacidotic, but in some cases I think T1.5s or T1's may be missed and this is more typically a symptom of T1 onset.

Real4 · #12 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

When you have unchecked diabetes (whatever the type) your blood glucose may reach a high point where you start to produce ketones. This can cause fast weight loss in a dangerous and unhealthy way. It is not far off diabetic ketoacidosis.

A untreated type II, at least, will lose weight way before reaching a ketoacidosis state. Body fat and protein will be used as "fuel' since injested carbs can not be utilized or only to a small extent.

It is a paradox, that weight loss is both a symptom and a remedy for type IIs, but that's because "weight los" is an inexact term.

True type IIs (those with "metabolic syndrome") would be helped greatly if they could lose their characteristic, internal (to the abdominal wall) mid-boby fat. But this is the hardest fat for them to lose.

foxl · #13 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real4

True type IIs (those with "metabolic syndrome") would be helped greatly if they could lose their characteristic, internal (to the abdominal wall) mid-boby fat. But this is the hardest fat for them to lose.

which was another thing that made me inconsistent with true type 2's ... I had gained it, but most of it was gone in the first 20 lbs I lost.

deercotn · #14 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunbury

10%! Why? Where did this come from? It's bad advice.

Weight has a great deal to with it - the more overweight you are, the harder your pancreas is working and the sooner it will pack up.

If you need to loose 25%, loose it. Don't stop at 10% - aim for something approximating to a normal BMI (not a perfect measure, but a useful guide).

Runaway weight loss caused by uncontrolled diabetes is a different issue.

10% is a reasonable goal, my friend. More if needed. Anybody needing to lose 25% or more is not "overweight", they're approaching being "obese".

Many/most Type 2's can be helped greatly by just losing 10% if needed. Some Type 2's are not overweight at all.

The most important thing is to exercise. Do this and hopefully the weight issue will take care of itself. Loosing weight is not the goal-- it's the result of exercise and diet changes. Controlling Type 2 is NOT about weight loss. It's about changes in your lifestyle with diet and exercise and the end result, if needed, will hopefully be weight loss.

foxl · #15 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deercotn

Controlling Type 2 is NOT about weight loss. It's about changes in your lifestyle with diet and exercise and the end result, if needed, will hopefully be weight loss.

Weight loss, however has been shown to decrease insulin resistance, by itself.

Diet control and exercise are also independent variables that can lower IR.