[MCS]

Basically what I do for a living is observe. I bring samples into my lab manipulate them and report the observations to my clients. I have begun to observe what has been going on with my body and D and have an idea that I would like to get feed back on. Forgive me for the length of this post. I am sure most of you have figured this out, but for me it is new territory.

I have noticed a variability in my BS numbers over time, with no apparent reasoning until I ate dinner at our local Barbeque restaurant last evening. I had one of those AH-HA moments. Here in the south we have pork barbeque. The pork has been cooked all day until it will easily fall apart with your bare hands. The pork barbeque is hard to digest due to the high content of fat. I ate several portions of the pork along with green beans, collard greens, pickles and less than a half cup of breaded and fried Okra. Now this should not have had a large effect on my BS but I went to 150 in an hour and stayed between 130 – 150 for 5 hours. Now It has been noted that a large percentage of people with T2, D that have stomach by-pass surgery will see all of their D symptoms disappear. The Stomach and first part of the small intestine are responsible for reducing, absorbing carbs and sugars. I recently stopped taking the 500 mg of Magnesium Oxide three times a day in combination with my Calcium. The Magnesium Oxide in combination with the Calcium absorbs fat and then the fat and Magnesium are eliminated. I did this to increase my fat absorbsion, trying to see if that would have an effect on my Atrial Fibrillation. What it did was slow my digestion system down, allowing what carbs I do eat to remain in my stomach for a longer period of time, hence the digestion of carbs and sugars and absorbsion of glucose. This is why when I ate the Flax seed brownies after I ate to much battered and fried fish that my BS would go down. They have resistant starch and provide fiber to increase stomach emptying.

My point being, if I can increase the speed at which my stomach empties, I should see a lower effect on my BS levels when I do consume carbs.

[MCS]

Sure could use some feed back on this idea

[PERKDOUG]

I will take a swing with some ideas.

There several forces possibly at work here, both of which make for a bad sugar day.

Mechanism #1:
You simply overate. A bulky meal may provoke the “Chinese Food Effect”. A large meal can cause extra glucagon to be secreted which upregulates gluconeogenesis in the liver and conversion of glycogen to glucose. With insulin resistance this might occur. This could result in higher and longer lasting blood sugars.

Mechanism #2:
You ate enough fat to provoke significant insulin resistance and thus glucose hanging around longer than if little fat had been eaten.

These 2 mechanisms together might be negatively synergistic.

Just an opinion. I hope this helps you.

[MCS]

Those are things I didn't consider. It wouldn't explain the effects of the Battered and fried fish, and the lowering effect of the flax seed brownie. Need to do some further pondering.

[slwood321]

Ok this is my very uneducated theory. Byetta works by slowing the asorbtion of carbs by the body. It basically closes the valve from your stomach so the carbs are released slower and you body is better able to match the insulin to the glucose (at least this is my understanding). You will have wonderful readings, usually under 100, even two hours after eating a high carb meal. But four hours later, your numbers will rise if you've eaten too many carbs.

Based on this, if you made the food go through faster, you would have a very high spike, but it wouldn't last for long.

Does this make sense?

[type2in NY]

Originally Posted by PERKDOUG

Mechanism #2:
You ate enough fat to provoke significant insulin resistance and thus glucose hanging around longer than if little fat had been eaten.

This sounds plausible, especially if he did not move around much AFTER eating.

MCS,

Eat some Edy's NO SUGAR ice cream after you overconsume. I guarantee a few bowls of that will "empty you out" later.

Just make sure you have plenty of TP in the bathroom.

[PERKDOUG]

Originally Posted by MCS

Those are things I didn't consider. It wouldn't explain the effects of the Battered and fried fish, and the lowering effect of the flax seed brownie. Need to do some further pondering.

I will swing again:

Saturated fat causes greater insulin resistance (when eaten with carbs) than polyunsaturated fats do.

Pork fat is about 30% saturated. Your fish was probably cooked in something like canola oil thats 5% saturated. The fat from the flax is also low in saturated fat. So is catfish.

Just another possible contribruting factor to the problem. More saturation gives more insulin resistance causes higher glucose.

Strike 2!

[xMenace]

Perkdoug's #1 is my #1. It's my #1 nemesis at the moment.

How carby were the brownies? A shot of carbs can trigger an insulin release. It's counter-intuitive, but taking some carbs can actually lower your BG. Can!

[type2in NY]

I am of the opinion that type 1 and type 2's process saturated fats differently.

[bunbury]

Originally Posted by MCS

My point being, if I can increase the speed at which my stomach empties, I should see a lower effect on my BS levels when I do consume carbs.

Here's my take on this. The stomach mushes our food up into a gloop that the small intestine can easily process. We don't absorb much through the stomach wall (mostly vitamins).

The all-important part is the first few inches of the small intestine, and pls correct me if I've got this wrong, but you can surgically remove this section and leave the stomach in place to see that big reduction in BG levels reported with gastric by-passes.

So, if you slow down the carbs in your stomach, you delay the spike, but you don't slow down the speed you absorb those carbs once they get to the small intestine. The spike just arrives later.

I'm going to go with the Chinese Restaurant Effect but I have a question: the beans, the breaded okra (for the bread) and the pickle could all have contributed. Maybe the pork was glazed or marinated? They could all add up to a spike. Can rule you all this out?

One of my worst spikes this year was after eating a bowl of lightly breaded squid ... I went 40 higher than I had expected.

[cliffmet]

Another possible culprit, along with the beans and breaded okra might be the barbecue sauce. You said you are "several portions" of barbecued pork, so if you ate much sauce, which is ofter very high in carbs, you may have gotten more carbs than you realized, and the fat in the pork may have actually held down an even higher spike.
Just another possibility.
Cliff

[slipperyelm]

I have never heard this idea that saturated fat (or any kind of fat) in a meal causes insulin resistance in the period after eating. Have I missed some major news?

[type2in NY]

Originally Posted by slipperyelm

I have never heard this idea that saturated fat (or any kind of fat) in a meal causes insulin resistance in the period after eating. Have I missed some major news?

Because saturated fat induces insulin resistance.

Why should this be? Because palmitic acid is the primary NEFA released from human adipose tissue during fasting. Think of palmitic as a signal molecule to tell the muscles that inhibition of glucose uptake is needed and to tell the liver that increased gluconeogenesis is required because there is no food coming in.

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance; Alzheimers

[Vicki NC]

Originally Posted by cliffmet

...You said you are "several portions" of barbecued pork, so if you ate much sauce, which is ofter very high in carbs, you may have gotten more carbs than you realized, and the fat in the pork may have actually held down an even higher spike.
Just another possibility.
Cliff

Here in coastal NC, our BBQ sauce is vinager based, not tomato based. So that wouldn't have as many carbs, if that's what was used. Not sure if SC has vinager or tomato based sauce.

[bunbury]

Originally Posted by Vicki NC

Here in coastal NC, our BBQ sauce is vinager based, not tomato based. So that wouldn't have as many carbs, if that's what was used. Not sure if SC has vinager or tomato based sauce.

A lot of vinegar-based sauces (and dressings) have added sugar. Some vinegars, balsamic for example, are carby, but it's very unlikely you ate balsamic.

I think you should first rule out the probability (IMO) that the spike was caused by the food you ate before constructing more complex theories. Breaded okra, pickle, sauce, beans + the Chinese Restaurant Effect ... plus maybe it was just one those days when the meter heads upwards a few points and amplifies the whole effect.