[MCS]

I read that about the pancreas and it just seem to fit what was going on in my situation. I do think I was not getting an insulin response and my liver had a hole in it. I think most of the problem is my liver, its disconnected from my stomach. I am missing the response you should get from eating something and your liver shuting the valve off. With that situation I think th pancreas gets no signal to release any insulin, pretty sure thats why a large breakfast with some carbs seems to work. Got to be a way of getting my stomach. liver and pancreas to work in unison again with out eating half of the kitchen every morning.

Originally Posted by Subby

Maybe the pancreas stops or slows, no argument there. But going by the fact that many insulin dependent T1s get DP anyway (and can get it just as bad if not worse, from my observations), I don't personally think the pancreas shutting off is likely a particularly central factor.

I hear you on the liver. Troublesome thing for those of us who have an unreliable one...

[Abra]

Has anyone tried drinking milk first thing inthe morning? DP is driving m crazy right now, and although I too avoid carbs in the morning, the past two days where I've had scarcely any carbs at all for the whole day have been two of my worst days lately. Night before last I went to bed at 117, woke up at 124, ate a piece of cheese and 45 minutes later was at 154. I've never seen a number like that in the past three months, and I was freaked. I think the cheese was just too slow, but I'm too chicken to do something like eat actual grain or bread. Milk seems like it might be a compromise.

I can't pretend to understand any of this stuff, but it's kicking my butt.

[MCS]

I know how you feel. I will continue to try different things, had not thought about the milk. I have been thinking about a spoonful of sugar, thats a cuss word here, but I need to do something to get my pancreas to join in on the fun in the morning. Or maybe my insulin resistance is really high in the AM, not sure. I will over think this until the smoke comes out of my ears though.

Originally Posted by Abra

Has anyone tried drinking milk first thing inthe morning? DP is driving m crazy right now, and although I too avoid carbs in the morning, the past two days where I've had scarcely any carbs at all for the whole day have been two of my worst days lately. Night before last I went to bed at 117, woke up at 124, ate a piece of cheese and 45 minutes later was at 154. I've never seen a number like that in the past three months, and I was freaked. I think the cheese was just too slow, but I'm too chicken to do something like eat actual grain or bread. Milk seems like it might be a compromise.

I can't pretend to understand any of this stuff, but it's kicking my butt.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by MCS

Just a thinking here

Something that just came to mind. I had the DP problem pretty bad and I have noticed others are having the same problem. I would wake up at an OK BG, but would soon start to climb well into the high 130's and even 140 at times, just breathing air or eating a small no carb breakfast. It took me having to eat a very large meal so that my stomach could send a signal to my liver to shut the glucose valve off.



What do you think?

I think I would not eat a very large meal LOL. I have the same problem. I bolus to cover it. I would rather bolus then fill my belly. That is just me though.

[MCS]

Not taking insulin, so do not have that option. Its something to think about though. I do not want to fill me belly every morning either, thats the problem.

Originally Posted by dbaratta

I think I would not eat a very large meal LOL. I have the same problem. I bolus to cover it. I would rather bolus then fill my belly. That is just me though.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by MCS

Not taking insulin, so do not have that option. Its something to think about though. I do not want to fill me belly every morning either, thats the problem.

It's also possible you're changing, MCS. For a good long while there the supps have been giving you amazing numbers. Something's weird -- but the FLU is in this equation. So I think doing any experiments until the flu's out of you for at least a week is going to be tainted data.

But I know you and you can't just 'take off' from the experimenting.. Just remember that the testing in this period is to find out what works to keep BGlevel controlled for SICK PERIODS. Not for normal necessarily.

It wouldn't hurt to try and cut out the hash browns and see what happens. Though you've had many a GREAT 2hrPP number after those same hash browns. I really think it's the flu bug you have. That's the only NEW variable. Right? Have you changed ANYTHING else?

Hang in there!

Originally Posted by dbaratta

I would rather bolus then fill my belly. That is just me though.

Oh NOT me.. I still LOVE filling my belly. Have to watch myself. Especially on my Friday am trips to IHOP.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by MCS

Not taking insulin, so do not have that option. Its something to think about though. I do not want to fill me belly every morning either, thats the problem.

OH, then you don't have that option is right, hmmmm very frustrating for you. I have to tell you liver dump is a huge problem for me and I have really watched myself carefully and notice that when I eat high carbs, especially simple carbs I dump like crazy even if my 2-hours post is great. SO, I am sticking to nature. Only things that are found in nature in their rawest state, like apples, carrots,,,,,,,,fresh fruit and veggies during the day and a healthy dinner of veggies and lean meat. I have to tell you I have been doing this for a few days now and my numbers are getting better and better, even with the fruit which I have a very hard time eating. So, insulin might help you but I would try playing with your diet first. (just my opinion) Let me give you an example of what this is doing for me.

Average day before my diet change. Low carb diet....

rising BG 99
2-hours later no food 250
bolus to cover protein only breakfast no carbs
2-hours later 125
2-hours after last reading no food 200
bolus to cover

lunch salad with lean meat
2-hours post 135
2-hours after that 220

OK, you get the idea. Now here is what I do. I took out the protein breakfast and eat mid morning around 10am. I have an apple and some carrots. During the day I eat more apple and carrots if I am hungry, maybe throw a hand full of nuts in there. Point is that I am eating from mother-nature's-kitchen only. This is the difference in just 3-days.

Pre meal BG95
post meal BG 100
Random 2-hours later BG 95
Random 2-hours BG 95

Pre meal BG 90
2-hours post BG 125
before bed BG 90

Rising BG 95-120

NEVER have I had these kinds of numbers. My guess is that the super healthy foods are cleaning out my system. I may be all wrong and high right now but the numbers don't lie. Sticking to what nature gave us to eat is working so far for me. Even whole grain breads are not healthy anymore for me. That is me......this is how my body is reacting to my new diet. I hope......I pray,,,,this sticks!

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by MCS

Not taking insulin, so do not have that option. Its something to think about though. I do not want to fill me belly every morning either, thats the problem.

Read this

Page Two - Key Differences Between Paleolithic and Modern Diets - What Cavemen Ate

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by dbaratta

OK, you get the idea. Now here is what I do. I took out the protein breakfast and eat mid morning around 10am. I have an apple and some carrots. During the day I eat more apple and carrots if I am hungry, maybe throw a hand full of nuts in there. Point is that I am eating from mother-nature's-kitchen only. This is the difference in just 3-days.

Pre meal BG95
post meal BG 100
Random 2-hours later BG 95
Random 2-hours BG 95

Pre meal BG 90
2-hours post BG 125
before bed BG 90

Rising BG 95-120

NEVER have I had these kinds of numbers. My guess is that the super healthy foods are cleaning out my system. I may be all wrong and high right now but the numbers don't lie. Sticking to what nature gave us to eat is working so far for me. Even whole grain breads are not healthy anymore for me. That is me......this is how my body is reacting to my new diet. I hope......I pray,,,,this sticks!

Poppy, that's AMAZING!!! I know what a roller coaster you've been on of late. This seems like an amazing breakthru for your 'leaky liver' as you've called it. So NO bolus at all since you started the new diet?? Just the Lantus and diet? And 'no more' numbers over 200?

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

Poppy, that's AMAZING!!! I know what a roller coaster you've been on of late. This seems like an amazing breakthru for your 'leaky liver' as you've called it. So NO bolus at all since you started the new diet?? Just the Lantus and diet? And 'no more' numbers over 200?

LOL okay let's not get carried away....LOL I still bolus for the fruit, but I don't have to bolus for the liver dump because the liver isn't dumping at the moment. So, in a way you are correct. I have cut my bolus amounts in half. So lets say I ate a sandwich for lunch and needed 20 units, 2-hours later I would be okay, 4 hours later I would dump cause of the bread and have to take 10 more units of novolog to cover. NOW, because I cut out the simple carb I will bolus for the apple I eat and 2-hours later I am good and 4-hours later I am STILL good so I don't have to bolus to cover for the dump cause it didn't happen......

I hope I am not just jumping the gun here. But I think this is going to work for me. After I am tested for type in december I am going to attempt to go off the insulin and stick to my super strict diet and maybe take met. We will see.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by dbaratta

So lets say I ate a sandwich for lunch and needed 20 units, 2-hours later I would be okay, 4 hours later I would dump cause of the bread and have to take 10 more units of novolog to cover. NOW, because I cut out the simple carb I will bolus for the apple I eat and 2-hours later I am good and 4-hours later I am STILL good so I don't have to bolus to cover for the dump cause it didn't happen......

Okay -- I have a lot of confusion about that paragraph. How are you sure that after a lunch with bread it's the liver dumping at 4hours and not just latent 'slow burn' from the bread? I have latent slow burn if I eat 'any' bread -even whole grain. Even if after 2 hours things are down they can go back up. Take out the bread and things go down at 2hours and stay down. How are you 'sure' it's the liver dump? Would the same thing happen 'without' the bread?

I hope I am not just jumping the gun here. But I think this is going to work for me. After I am tested for type in december I am going to attempt to go off the insulin and stick to my super strict diet and maybe take met. We will see.

My goodness that paragraph is filled with a 'lot of sudden changes'. I think you mean -- that if your testing comes back and you're not now a 1.5 (compromised pancreas or LADA) then you'll go off insulin. Right? And would you still, if re-confirmed as a T2, stay on Lantus? Metformin, of course, would help keep the liver from dumping. Are you 'not' on any Met now? If not, as a dx'ed T2 -- why not? Or why wouldn't you be on some 'liver inhibiting glucose' med? That could explain your 'major liver dumping issue'.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by NewdestinyX

Okay -- I have a lot of confusion about that paragraph. How are you sure that after a lunch with bread it's the liver dumping at 4hours

'.

Yes I am sure. I am using a 4-hour as a reference not an actual. Liver dump because it happens to me when I know I need food and I have waited too long PLUS in the morning right after rising. With heavy carbs the day before my dump is horrible. I have been watching BG for a long time now so I am not just guessing here. I just didn't communicate exactly what I meant. ugh. LOL

If I am a confirmed T2 I will try my hardest to get off of insulin, period.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by dbaratta

Yes I am sure. I am using a 4-hour as a reference not an actual. Liver dump because it happens to me when I know I need food and I have waited too long PLUS in the morning right after rising. With heavy carbs the day before my dump is horrible. I have been watching BG for a long time now so I am not just guessing here. I just didn't communicate exactly what I meant. ugh. LOL

If I am a confirmed T2 I will try my hardest to get off of insulin, period.

Understood. Can you answer the other part of my question? Are you on a liver dump inhibitor like Metformin now?
And if not - why not?

Thanks!

[MCS]

Yes, I have cut out all carbs for the past few days and things are worse than with the Hash Browns. No carbs, I go to 140-150, with smallish amount, piece of flat bread and eggs, I went 167, Shoneys hash browns, eggs, etc. 140 and back to 100 in two hours. Pretty sure the flu is still wrecking my logic right now. Haven't changed anything so far, as you have mentioned changing things now when my BG's are in a blender will not be consistant when things improve, flu wise.


It wouldn't hurt to try and cut out the hash browns and see what happens. Though you've had many a GREAT 2hrPP number after those same hash browns. I really think it's the flu bug you have. That's the only NEW variable. Right? Have you changed ANYTHING else?

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by MCS

Yes, I have cut out all carbs for the past few days and things are worse than with the Hash Browns. No carbs, I go to 140-150, with smallish amount, piece of flat bread and eggs, I went 167, Shoneys hash browns, eggs, etc. 140 and back to 100 in two hours. Pretty sure the flu is still wrecking my logic right now. Haven't changed anything so far, as you have mentioned changing things now when my BG's are in a blender will not be consistent when things improve, flu wise.

Yeah -- it's that virus.. It would seem the adage that our moms taught us of 'feed a cold/starve a fever' is also a rule of thumb that works for diabetic T2's when in a flu/virus (non fever??). It seems our livers give EXTRA dumping.. hence your problem going 'no carb'. Seems like you should keep eating a little 'more carb' thru the end of the virus and then resume your lower carb and testing experiments. What-EVER will you do with your time for a few more days if you can't experiment..?

Hang in there, bro!