[Subby]

Here's my understanding. Caffeine = stimulant = adrenalin release = glucose/glucagon release. That's the way the drug works. That's why people get hooked - hooked to the high of an adrenalin release.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by Moonpie

does anyone think dreams can affect the liver dump? I have switched to taking my metfromin at bedtime, to try & get better fasting numbers in the morning, but they actually are higher now, than when I took the meds with breakfast. 140 to 150 is normal FBG, but I get very vivid dreams, yesterday I woke up, running a marathon ( believe me that is not something I am able ( or want) to do )I was wondering if these active dreams urge the liver to dump more glucose or is that a crazy theory.

Your drugs you take for allergies can cause BG increases.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by Subby

Here's my understanding. Caffeine = stimulant = adrenalin release = glucose/glucagon release. That's the way the drug works. That's why people get hooked - hooked to the high of an adrenalin release.

YUP sounds about right. I am hooked, but what I did was cut back on my intake by cutting the caffeine in half. I do have caffeine, half decaf. I have to bolus a few units for coffee and to me it is well worth it. I need that morning kick.

[MCS]

Makes sense, but what I have noticed for me is when I drink plan coffee with Half and Half and no sugar sweetner, my BG usually goes down. Could be pancreas is responding to the elevation of the BG from the caffien. So the coffee and the whole milk, along with the sugar and flat bread should have sent me sky high if not for my pancreas joining in on the party.

Originally Posted by Subby

Here's my understanding. Caffeine = stimulant = adrenalin release = glucose/glucagon release. That's the way the drug works. That's why people get hooked - hooked to the high of an adrenalin release.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by dbaratta

Me too Grant, I read it in this forum and there seem to be plenty of people to back it up. Maybe do a search for it and see if you can find some old posts.

Another one that surprised me was the sugar free sweeteners, they too can aid in raising the BG. I think it has to do with liver dump, I don't remember.

I've already done a lot of reading about artificial sweeteners (Spenda, Nutrasweet, etc). I know for sure they have no glycemic index. There are 'some' 'tall tales' circulating here. -- Now sugar alcohols I've read metabolize very slowly (or non-existently for some) into the blood stream. So some particularly sensitive people could get a rise from a sugar alcohol. I don't. Since my muffin-like products and cookies with SugAlc's in them have other carbs I did my test of this for me - with 'Sugar Free Fudge' that has only Maltitol in it -- and there was no rise in BG for me. So it's not the SugAlc's for me that elevate me when I eat my ChocChip muffin.. it's the other carbs in it. My SF cookies only give me a very tiny rise. maybe 5-8 points. But Splenda is BG neutral for me (and should be for all from everything I've read from corroborated studies).

If coffee does elevate BG for some -- it's the caffeine I'm pretty sure and that's easy enough to get rid of. I was caffeine free for many years. I'll just do 'all decaf'.

[MCS]

Now this has been a while back and not sure if I could find this article again, but when some people consume artificial sweetners thier body assumes it is getting something sweet. When thier liver finds out it is not sweet, it dumps out glucose to compensate for the difference. I will try to find this article again. This was a rare phenomenon in some individuals that I read in a journal while waiting for my wife in the docs office.

[fgummett]

IIRC the Nurses study also reported that those who drank soda (diet or regular) early in the day, ate more at subsequent meals.

I did a search and this came up first... not exactly what I mentioned above but related al the same http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/588137;meddomainjsession=tGbGKyBFcklQG2hkrrvnPWrmf 7Jq19J240n1HkZcyJwFy2QCJH0s!-1887361660

February 11, 2009 — Drinking diet soda at least daily is associated with significantly greater risks for select incident components of the metabolic syndrome (MetSyn) and type 2 diabetes, according to the results of an observational study reported in the January 16 Online First issue of Diabetes Care.

"Two longitudinal cohort studies have shown positive associations between diet soda consumption and incident MetSyn independent of baseline measures of adiposity," write Jennifer A. Nettleton, PhD, from the University of Texas Health Sciences Center in Houston, and colleagues. "Replication of previously observed diet soda-MetSyn associations in a distinct cohort would bolster their credibility and provide further insight into the nature of the relationship. Previous studies have not addressed associations between diet soda and individual MetSyn components or risk of type 2 diabetes nor have they fully addressed potential longitudinal mediators of these relationships, i.e., changes in adiposity status."

The goal of this study was to evaluate associations between diet soda consumption and the risk for incident MetSyn, its components, and type 2 diabetes in the Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis (MESA).

Initial evaluation was performed from 2000 to 2002, at which time baseline food frequency questionnaires measured diet soda consumption. Three follow-up evaluations were performed from 2002 to 2003, 2004 to 2005, and 2005 to 2007. Incident type 2 diabetes was defined as fasting glucose levels of more than 126 mg/dL, self-reported type 2 diabetes, or use of diabetes medication. National Cholesterol Education Program Adult Treatment Panel 3 criteria were used to define MetSyn and its components. After adjustment for demographic, lifestyle, and dietary confounders, hazard ratios (HRs) were estimated for type 2 diabetes, MetSyn, and MetSyn components.

Compared with participants who did not drink diet soda, those who drank diet soda at least daily had a 36% greater relative risk for incident MetSyn (HR, 1.36; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.11 - 1.66) and a 67% greater relative risk for incident type 2 diabetes (HR, 1.67; 95% CI, 1.27 - 2.20).

Of the individual components of MetSyn, only high waist circumference (men: ≥ 102 cm; women: ≥ 88 cm) and high fasting glucose levels (≥ 100 mg/dL) were prospectively associated with consumption of diet soda. Associations between diet soda intake and type 2 diabetes were independent of baseline measures of adiposity or changes in these measures. In contrast, associations between diet soda and MetSyn were not independent of these factors.

"Although these observational data cannot establish causality, consumption of diet soda at least daily was associated with significantly greater risks of select incident MetSyn components and type 2 diabetes," the study authors write.

Limitations of this study include observational design, precluding determination of causality; possible confounding by other dietary and lifestyle/behavioral factors; and difficulties in estimating intake of diet soda or artificial sweetener.

"These results corroborate findings from the ARIC [Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities] and Framingham studies and show stronger adverse associations exist between diet soda and type 2 diabetes," the study authors conclude. "Diet soda consumption, either independently or in conjunction with other dietary and lifestyle behaviors, may lead to weight gain, impaired glucose control, and eventual diabetes."

The National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute supported this study. The study authors have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.

Diabetes Care. Published online January 16, 2009.

Possibly just means that those who drink diet sodas also do other risky things but 36% seems significant.

[MCS]

That is what this study was related to. If you drink diet sodas does your body compensate for it some how.

Originally Posted by fgummett

IIRC the Nurses study also reported that those who drank soda (diet or regular) early in the day, ate more at subsequent meals.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by MCS

That is what this study was related to. If you drink diet sodas does your body compensate for it some how.

Not sure exactly what mechanism is in place here.

GI or even grams of carbs is not the whole answer as we so frequently see repeated here on DF... test for yourself to see how YOU react to different foods.

Quantity can also have an impact... have you read Dr Bernstein's description of the Chinese Restaurant effect... in brief, you may get a BG rise just by eating even a large amount of sawdust.

[Abra]

I get a 30 point rise out of one cup of black coffee, I've tested it several times. Decaf doesn't tweak me at all.

[rededmcm]

My DP problem shows up at roughly 5:30AM.
Sometimes taking 850 mg regular Metformin fixes the problem.
Injecting a basal insulin before I go to bed always fixes the
problem.I inject 10 units of Novolin NPH(available without
prescription at WalMart).
Eddie

[MCS]

ABra, did your BG levels go down at the 2hr mark after drinking the milk?

Originally Posted by Abra

I get a 30 point rise out of one cup of black coffee, I've tested it several times. Decaf doesn't tweak me at all.

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by rededmcm

My DP problem shows up at roughly 5:30AM.
Sometimes taking 850 mg regular Metformin fixes the problem.
Injecting a basal insulin before I go to bed always fixes the
problem.I inject 10 units of Novolin NPH(available without
prescription at WalMart).
Eddie

Novolin NPH is like Lantus.. a slow acting insulin?

And what is its price at Walmart for let's say 3-4 3ml pens (containing 300units each)?

[MCS]

You learn something everyday. After looking at coffee and caffiene on the web, yes caffiene has been reported to raise your BG level, but it also has conflicting reports about whether it increases insulin dump or inhibits it. My experience is it increases an insulin dump. In any case I will cut back my coffee consumption to the weekends only I think.

FBG 6:30 am: 88, what do you know
6:45 am, because I am curious: 100, 12pts 15 minutes, man thats fueling up the rocket ship mighty quick.

7:30 am, Took all of my pills, ate breakfast 15 carbs, and drank this time lemon juice with 25grams of pure sugar. No coffee this time.

8:00 am: 130
8:30 am: 150
9:00 am: 145, peaked out, yea
9:30 am: and 2 hrs PP: 125, so maybe to much sugar with out the coffee to insure an insulin dump.

Off to do a few steps on my stair climber, got to try and bring this back down. Rethink this later.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by MCS

Now this has been a while back and not sure if I could find this article again, but when some people consume artificial sweetners thier body assumes it is getting something sweet. When thier liver finds out it is not sweet, it dumps out glucose to compensate for the difference. I will try to find this article again. This was a rare phenomenon in some individuals that I read in a journal while waiting for my wife in the docs office.

YUP that is what I was referring to. It happens to me. If I drink artificial sweeteners at bed time instead of plain water I have a high reading in the morning. It happens every time so I am sure this is how it effects me.