Reversing Type 2 Diabetes / Vegan ?

[MCS]

The cause of Diabetes is genetic!!! The disease(Diabetes) is not..


Forgive me if I just say HUGH,

[dturney]

The cause of Diabetes is genetic!!! The disease(Diabetes) is not..


Forgive me if I just say HUGH,

You can't see the forest for the trees can you MCS????

[MCS]

You can't see the forest for the trees can you MCS???
?

So what your saying is you had the genetic predisposition to acquire diabetes, but it was your life style at age 33 that gave you the disease.

[HelenM]

Genes T2: is this link any help? (but don't just go by the title)
Genes Can Cause Type 2 Diabetes

[dturney]

So what your saying is you had the genetic predisposition to acquire diabetes, but it was your life style at age 33 that gave you the disease.

No! What I am saying (or trying to say) some folks are predisposition(genetic) to acquire diabetes, but life styles trigger the disease. Some folks are not predisposition(genetic)to acquire diabetes, however, become diabetic. It is the cause=result thing..... Cause in some cases(not all) is a gene connection. The result is diabetes. You may carry the cause all your life , and not become diabetic. Diabetes is a disease that can be gene connected, or not. However, you may or may not have a defective gene, diabetes can still occur. Well I am starting to go in circles... I hope someone can see what I am trying to say..... going for a cup of coffee...cu

[MCS]

Do you have a guess as to why you got Diabetes at age 33.

Type 2 Diabetes occurs when your Beta cells can no longer keep up with your demand for insulin. If it were as simple as being obese, then every obese person would have Diabetes. Obese individuals that continue to gain weight with out having diabetes have the ability to increase their Beta mass accordingly. The genetic connection not only occurs in IR, but also in your ability to increase Beta mass as demand increases. It takes this combination of factors to become a T2 Diabetic. If you can keep your demand for insulin at or below your ability to manufacture insulin, hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia seldom occur in the T2 Diabetic. It doesn't negate the fact you still have a genetic flaw for glucose metabolism. T1, T1.5, Moody have a different set of circumstances that bring about the disease.

So what your saying is you had the genetic predisposition to acquire diabetes, but it was your life style at age 33 that gave you the disease.

No! What I am saying (or trying to say) some folks are predisposition(genetic) to acquire diabetes, but life styles trigger the disease. Some folks are not predisposition(genetic)to acquire diabetes, however, become diabetic. It is the cause=result thing..... Cause in some cases(not all) is a gene connection. The result is diabetes. You may carry the cause all your life , and not become diabetic. Diabetes is a disease that can be gene connected, or not. However, you may or may not have a defective gene, diabetes can still occur. Well I am starting to go in circles... I hope someone can see what I am trying to say..... going for a cup of coffee...cu

[Evermont]

News dated yesterday:

Scientists Map Susceptibility to Type 2 Diabetes

ScienceDaily (Dec. 28, 2011) — Research carried out at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem has provided the first proof of molecular risk factors leading to type 2 diabetes, providing an "early warning" sign that could lead to new approaches to treating this and other human disease conditions.

Despite extensive research on the molecular basis for the variance in susceptibility between individuals to common diseases, the subject is still poorly understood. A prime example of this is type 2 diabetes (T2D), a very widespread human disorder.

What is it that characterizes the susceptibility to this disease?

Epigenetic variations -- which are small molecular marks superimposed on the DNA structure -- have been frequently hypothesized to modify predisposition, but direct evidence was missing.

Now, a research team led by Dr. Asaf Hellman of the Hebrew University's Institute of Medical Research Israel Canada has developed a novel, multistep, study design involving the analysis of disease-contributing epigenetic variations among hundreds of patients and control individuals.

The research was presented in a scientific conference at the Cambridge University Genomic Center and was recently published in the scientific journal Human Molecular Genetic.

Taking an innovative research direction, the Hebrew University research team decided to map DNA methylation variations rather than DNA sequence variations, as was traditionally done. The team undertook a proof-of-concept study among 1,169 type 2 diabetes patients and non-diabetic controls. The results demonstrated the unique abilities of this novel research approach by revealing a clear-cut, disease-predisposing DNA methylation signature. This is a first report in the scientific literature of epigenetic risk factor for T2D.

DNA methylation is a naturally occurring mechanism used to regulate genes and protect DNA from some types of cleavage. It is one of the regulatory processes that are referred to as epigenetic, in which an alteration in gene expression occurs without a change in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA. Defects in this process cause several types of disease that afflict humans.

The method used by Hellman was developed during postdoctoral training at the Harvard University Medical School. Later, his research students at the Hebrew University, Gidon Tperoff and Dvir Aran, further developed it into an efficient, genome-wide mapping method.

The mapping was carried out on the methylation sites in cooperation with Prof. Benjamin Glaser, head of the Endocrinology and Metabolism Department at the Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical School and a leading researcher of T2D genetics, and with additional key researchers including Professors Jeremy Kark and Yechiel Friedlander from the Braun Hebrew University-Hadassah School of Public Health and Community Medicine, Prof. Julio Wainstein from the Wolfson Medical Center, and Prof. Ephrat Levy-Lahad from the Shaare Zedek Medical Center.

This analysis not only revealed, for the first time, a clear-cut epigenetic signature in T2D, telltale methylation signature marks were also shown to appear on the DNA of young individuals who latter developed impaired glucose metabolism, even before the appearance of clinical diabetic manifestations.

These findings shed new light on the mechanism of individual predisposition to T2D and pave the way for the elucidating of similar mechanisms in a long list of common human diseases, including many metabolic, autoimmune and psychiatric disorders.

Given that epigenetic marks are sensitive to a wide range of environmental clues, including diets, chemical exposures, intrauterine environments, and also to therapeutic drugs, these finding may open the way for the development of new prevention and/or intervention epigenetic therapies.

(link)

[MsTCB]

Interesting info, Evermont, but I am a bit concerned about these folks using a "novel" "multi-step study design." I would have to hear some further details about this "novel" study design to see if it followed the "gold standard" of scientific method study design: i.e. double-blind, placebo study.

I would also need to see that this study went through the rigors of been peer-reviewed.

@dturney - So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that a person can have perfect genes with regard to metabolism, pancreatic function, etc. and STILL develop the T2 Diabetes?

[Evermont]

Wut? Really?

I don't care about any of that. Point is, "genetic" debates miss the point. It means that genes are not necessarily the means. I don't care if the study is all wet (though imagine if they're onto something!) it makes no difference. I care that there's a thing called epigenetics and that it may well explain these things that we're pointlessly haggling over.

I found a pretty picture - they say it's worth 1000 words.

word

[Daytona]

That is a great picture. Where did you find it? I'm guessing the source has more good info.

[MsTCB]

Wut? Really?

I don't care about any of that. Point is, "genetic" debates miss the point. It means that genes are not necessarily the means. I don't care if the study is all wet (though imagine if they're onto something!) it makes no difference. I care that there's a thing called epigenetics and that it may well explain these things that we're pointlessly haggling over.

lol...Well, fortunately, the science professionals DO have to "care about" following scientific method procedures or else their test results fall into the category of "junk science" and we would be back into the Medieval Ages of blood letting. It is what ensures that tests can be performed over and over and will yield the same results.

And, the peer review insures that other science professionals at the top of their field agree.

Sorry you see our discussions as "pointless haggling" because I see it as - hopefully - an opportunity for teaching, learning, and support to take place.

[MCS]

A large part of the human genetic code is made up of what is starting to be known as switches. This part of the gene instructs other parts when to turn on and turn off. It is here that I suspect is where diabetes is born.

[dturney]

Do you have a guess as to why you got Diabetes at age 33.

Type 2 Diabetes occurs when your Beta cells can no longer keep up with your demand for insulin. If it were as simple as being obese, then every obese person would have Diabetes. Obese individuals that continue to gain weight with out having diabetes have the ability to increase their Beta mass accordingly. The genetic connection not only occurs in IR, but also in your ability to increase Beta mass as demand increases. It takes this combination of factors to become a T2 Diabetic. If you can keep your demand for insulin at or below your ability to manufacture insulin, hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia seldom occur in the T2 Diabetic. It doesn't negate the fact you still have a genetic flaw for glucose metabolism. T1, T1.5, Moody have a different set of circumstances that bring about the disease.

I GIVE UP!!!!!!!! I am outta here....cu ....take care....

[foxl]

Reversing Type 2 Diabetes / Vegan ?

Here is the full text of the article for those interested --- turns out is freely available online.

[gphx]

The thread exploded. Obviously. The original poster has still only made one post. Barring the possibility of a troll post I hope we haven't scared off someone who just got here. I was a vegan before I came aware of my diabetes. I was a vegan when I started having my first symptoms. I was a crappy vegan. Vegetables were not among my favorite foods. Veganism for me was an excuse to eat tons and tons of relatively diabetic hostile grains, rice, wheat, corn, barley, (Captain Crunch is a grain too right?). Other relatively carby foods such as beans were also my main staples. Cans of fruit in corn syrup. I ate foods like these all day and all week long.

In contrast someone eating baskets of quality vegetables, nuts, and perhaps a reasonable amount of grains and legumes would likely have entirely different results. We might think a vegan is by definition limiting protein but where ground beef is 40% protein spinach is 30% protein. If vegetables lack protein then how does the source of beef, vegetarian cows, make it?

The low carb diet I (usually) eat now is more what I would consider to be a proper vegan diet plus meat. Would it work just as well with protein from entirely vegan sources skipping the meat? Probably.

All I'm saying is there's as much variety in what constitutes a vegetarian/vegan diet as there is in what constitutes a more omnivorous one. In some cases a vegan/vegetarian diet may be almost identical to a low carb one except in choice of protein source.

I wish we could respond to vegetarians/vegans as individuals instead of as if they were Dr. Barnard himself. One person, however misguided, does not represent vegetarianism/veganism for everyone any more than the ADA dietary standards are accepted by all omnivorous diabetics. Until recently, and arguably still, low carb adherents have met with resistance and vitriol from the establishment, the public, and even fellow diabetics. Perhaps vegetarians and vegans have something to offer us as well and perhaps it isn't so different from what we believe. In some cases perhaps it isn't so different from what we're already doing.

Again, I hope we didn't lose our original poster as scaring off someone who is looking for help for a family member would be a real shame.