New ac1, a bit disappointed would like opinions please

[Gigem99]

That's not really 'fairly strong evidence' , it's a suggestion that there might be a link. ....

"...recent studies in animals suggesting that bovine serum albumin is the protein in cow's milk responsible for triggering an autoimmune response..." doesn't even come CLOSE to saying there is "strong evidence that cow's milk can actually cause type 1" It makes is a theory. Not "strong evidence" ....

You are both, of course, absolutely correct, and my apologies for the hyperbole. I also apologize to the OP for kinda hijacking this thread. There is a thread somewhere that does speak at length about the milk/diabetes association, that quotes Lancet. I'll dig that thread up later and maybe we can talk about this there.

Someone also copied a review that David Mendoza wrote of the Hurley book. Mendoza's an interesting character. I think I ran into him once while I was hiking outside of Boulder, CO. We talked for a while about DM, and I was shocked to find someone who knew so much about DM. It wasn't until I got down off the hill that it dawned on me who he was.

[Peggy_TX]

You are both, of course, absolutely correct, and my apologies for the hyperbole. I also apologize to the OP for kinda hijacking this thread. There is a thread somewhere that does speak at length about the milk/diabetes association, that quotes Lancet. I'll dig that thread up later and maybe we can talk about this there.

Someone also copied a review that David Mendoza wrote of the Hurley book. Mendoza's an interesting character. I think I ran into him once while I was hiking outside of Boulder, CO. We talked for a while about DM, and I was shocked to find someone who knew so much about DM. It wasn't until I got down off the hill that it dawned on me who he was.

Sounds like an interesting new thread topic. I look forward to it.
As I said -- I'm not saying that book you quoted is bad. Frankly, it looks interesting and might find its way to my ipad... Just wanting to make a point about not taking any single source (or small quote) as a premise for big decisions.

[jojeti]

I think drinking the milk of another species is just asking for trouble in the long run, never mind the fact that it is loaded with saturated fat, hormones, pesticides and who knows what else - and can anyone say lactose intolerance?

I heard an interesting radio show (Mayo Health something) a couple of years ago. They were interviewing an "expert" GI doctor who was saying that through his experience and 1000's of patients, he believes milk was never meant for adults, only children in their growing years. He feels that way back in time, milk was provided to children through nursing, etc... and then they were weaned off and didn't drink any milk anymore. He believes that more adults are lactose intolerant than not and that adult bodies aren't made to utilize milk effectively and that adults don't need milk or should they necessarily drink it. I wish I remembered more and he, of course, was able to explain it much more in depth with reasons why. I don't even remember his name, I wish I did so I could look it up.

[DeusXM]

I think drinking the milk of another species is just asking for trouble in the long run, never mind the fact that it is loaded with saturated fat, hormones, pesticides and who knows what else - and can anyone say lactose intolerance?

But lactose intolerance is not exactly a common ailment. The fact is that human beings have been drinking cows milk for probably longer than they've been farming cereal.

Maybe there is a connection between milk consumption and the spiraling rates of heart disease and diabetes I keep reading about in the UK papers? Who knows.

Well, here's the thing. Doesn't that seem a very simplistic answer? Bear in mind that people have been eating milk and cheese and drinking yoghurt for thousands of years, why is it that it's only in the last 20 year that heart disease and T2 diabetes rates have increased? Off the top of my head, I can suggest the spread of fast food, the fact that now almost everyone owns a car, hardly anyone works down a coal mine, more people eating ready meals and people increasing their carbohydrate intake as a whole bunch of things that could possibly correlate to causing an increase in these conditions. The fact is that the people in my parents' generation (ie the ones in their 60s and 70s) were the ones that got the free milk and broadly speaking don't have the same health concerns as many people do in their 40s today.

[Peggy_TX]

The fact is that the people in my parents' generation (ie the ones in their 60s and 70s) were the ones that got the free milk and broadly speaking don't have the same health concerns as many people do in their 40s today.

To play devil's advocate, the milk that was broadly available in the 60's and 70's wasn't the same as today.
There probably is a LOT to point at in the pesticide/anitbiotics/hormones found in most milk in the last 20 years that likely wasn't there prior to that
(really... I'm NOT that old, and we had milk delivered to our porch by the farmer when I was a kid!!)
And all that **** (pesticides/hormones/antibiotics) are also in most commercially raised meats.
And you can't even get away from toxins now in fish.
But all that just points to potential need for reforms in ranching and farming -- not to vilify meat, milk, eggs per se. There are often local/sustainable/ethical options for all those, which are NOT as filled with **** as the commercial produce.
(And certainly doesn't PROVE any sort of correlation between modern farming/ranching processes and diabetes.... but it sure can't be GOOD for humans.....)

[Ela]

Funny you mentioned pesticides in relation to milk and other animal products; meaning yes, there is a concern but it doesn’t go away and actually gets more critical in totally vegetarian diet. In addition many veggies (if not all) are genetically modified these days… unless you grow all your food in your own backyard, and even then you’re not totally safe as we have overall pollution and you got to get your seeds somewhere and who knows how they were produced.

And that’s one of the reason I probably won’t ever eat totally vegetarian diet, at least if I can help it; eating different types of food gives you more various and rich nutrition and also balances (at least to some extend) their potential dangers.

For example fish used to be considered one of the safest foods till recently when they found too much mercury in it – however certain amount of mercury is not harmful for most humans, yet, if you start eating fish every day (especially the same type of fish) – the same amount of mercury (or other dangerous things) is going to build up in your body and might reach dangerous and damaging levels. The same could be said about soy, wheat, etc.

I think variety and moderation for everybody + watching carbs for diabetics is the key to healthy eating.

[nordgirl]

Funny you mentioned pesticides in relation to milk and other animal products; meaning yes, there is a concern but it doesn’t go away and actually gets more critical in totally vegetarian diet. In addition many veggies (if not all) are genetically modified these days… unless you grow all your food in your own backyard, and even then you’re not totally safe as we have overall pollution and you got to get your seeds somewhere and who knows how they were produced.

Don't get me going on the importance of buying organic produce, I beg of you

[Ela]

Don't get me going on the importance of buying organic produce, I beg of you

And you can buy organic and humanly raised/hormones free meat and cage free chicken and eggs just as well.

[jwags]

I always hated milk and rarely drank it as a child unless I was forced. So basically a life without milk and I still got diabetes.

[jojeti]

I always hated milk and rarely drank it as a child unless I was forced. So basically a life without milk and I still got diabetes.

Me too! I always hated it and haven't drank it since 3 years old. I remember in elementary school during milk break, I still got a milk and had to pretend I was drinking it. My mom and the teacher made a deal if I pretended I drank it, then I could be on the milk clean up team that picked up the cartons and took them to the utility room to dump and rinse and throw them away. The teachers didn't want the other kids to know I wasn't drinking my milk. Don't really know why that was such a big deal but it was.

[Peggy_TX]

I've always disliked milk. Since diagnosis, I've come to LOVE heavy cream.
That said, I've ALWAYS loved cheese. I think for the purposes of the author, I'd have to say that "milk" includes cheeses made from cow's milk.

But, for non-scientific and purely anecdotal evidence -- I must dismiss the 2 previous posters. I believe the author was indicating milk as a potential factor in T1, due to autoimmune issues. So lack of milk drinking in T2's history is not contradictory. (Though it really wouldn't be even if they were T1's.... LOL)

So... there we are. Absolutely nowhere.

[jojeti]

I've always disliked milk. Since diagnosis, I've come to LOVE heavy cream.
That said, I've ALWAYS loved cheese. I think for the purposes of the author, I'd have to say that "milk" includes cheeses made from cow's milk.

But, for non-scientific and purely anecdotal evidence -- I must dismiss the 2 previous posters. I believe the author was indicating milk as a potential factor in T1, due to autoimmune issues. So lack of milk drinking in T2's history is not contradictory. (Though it really wouldn't be even if they were T1's.... LOL)

So... there we are. Absolutely nowhere.

I did get that, I was just commenting on drinking milk. I did know that it was intended for T1.