cdm-ochm

verapamil

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Ahhh ... I think I found the link between Prevacid and Gastrin

 

http://diatribe.org/issues/35/trial-watch

 

Januvia and Prevacid raise the body’s level of two hormones (GLP-1 and gastrin, respectively) that are thought to work together to preserve old beta cells and help produce new ones. 

 

My question now is if pantoprazole has the same effect that Prevacid has? If not, then I need to switch GERD meds.

Well maybe this answers my question ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21304238

 

so it seems that PPI's at high dosages do increase Gastrin levels significantly.

 

Also, long-term PPI use may cause a slightly higher risk of bone fracture. See these study summaries: http://www.fda.gov/drugs/drugsafety/postmarketdrugsafetyinformationforpatientsandproviders/ucm213206.htm#TableofEpidemiologicalstudiesevaluatingfractureriskwithprotonpumpinhibitors

Edited by feibelman

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I see neogenesis as a good explanation for type 1s with some insulin producing cells found in their post-mortem pancreas biopsides. Kind of obvious, because if all our cells die after 7 years, either they must get replicated from existing cells, to maintain beta cells through normal healthy people's lifetimes, or be re-created from stem cells naturally and continuously.

 

Anything that stimulates neogenesis can be combined with replication therapies, because the latter synergizes with and builts on the benefits of the former.

Durn straight ... it's all making more sense to me now.

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I'm also going to order some more Gaba pills on top of Liraglutide (unfortunately Bydureon isn't available in Canada yet, so I need to stick to Victoza. doh).

 

I tried GABA before but stopped taking it when I didn't see any significant results during my BCG injection adventure in 2011. Then my pills expired so my girlfriend threw them out. You have wonderful dreams on Gaba, and they made my shoulder muscles grow too, so those are at least some fun side effects for a change. Bodybuilders often take it and it's available at many health food / weightlifting stores.

 

GABA exerts protective and regenerative effects on islet beta cells and reverses diabetes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21709230

 

 

Let me know if you can score some Bydureon and what side effects you have. I'm gonna go on 0.6 -> 1.2 Victoza + Gaba + Ibuprofen + Verapamil (+ maybe IGF-1 eventually). I'm gonna try taking all this for an entire year.

 

Good luck getting all your prescriptions, just go to a clinic and skip telling your main doctor about them. I don't believe in being a passive patient, waiting like a putz for FDA to approve a drug again that's already been approved 30+ years ago (verapamil). 

OK - I'm going to add GABA too ... what can it hurt:

 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/286121.php

 

I will still wait at least until I reach the verapamil 3 month mark before adding Bydureon.

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Hoping4Cure - Is there a way for us to private message? I really believe we can continue to make actual progress towards a cure together, but it probably doesn't need to be on a public board.

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Very interesting article from a doctor whose child got Type 1 diabetes and they cut out all wheat based products and he is cured. One more thing to try along with Verapamil? I agree with you that Verapamil may be the missing protective link in the quest for a cure. However, it has to be combined with some other therapy.

 

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/04/type-1-diabetes-cured/

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I already don't eat any wheat or wheat byproducts. That guy's a snake oil salesman and there is zero credible scientific evidence that this person actually was cured, or even really had type 1. Anectotal evidence on a guy's website who's trying to shill his book is total BS. If it worked, and so many type 1s are low-carb or no-carb, why aren't they screaming from the rooftops about being cured? They aren't shouting or making any noise, because they aren't cured. I'm so sick of these miracle cure diet gurus who are shucking and jiving people into false hope of an easy fix because "teh big bad food industry" is the cause of all ailments that befall human beings. Notwithstanding that people have been getting type 1 for thousands of years.

 

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Sitagliptin, a dipeptidyl peptidase-4 inhibitor, raises endogenous glucagon-like peptide-1 levels (GLP-1), and the PPI, lansoprazole, raises endogenous gastrin. The combination of GLP-1 and gastrin produced by these 2 drugs protected existing beta cells in the mice, regenerated new beta cells from the pancreatic exocrine duct cells, and at the same time stopped the autoimmune reaction against the new beta cells.

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/734370

 

Prevacid is the wrong search term to look for raising gastrin levels, you need to search for its medical name : lansoprazole

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140703142158.htm

 

However, merely raising GLP-1 and gastrin through those two drugs alone was not sufficient to show any difference. That's why taking verapamil at the same time as GLP-1 and Gastrin, over a longer period, I believe stands a better chance.

 

One of the studies there shows they are giving 30mg 2x per day of gastrin, which is 4x my current 1/day dose (15mg per pill). It costs like fifty bucks for a pack of 3 x 14 pills, so it could get expensive over time unless I score an RX for it. What's the medical reason I should give for needing to take it consistently? Instead of, say, for mere heartburn. It's Rx-only here in Canada, which is maybe a good thing because then my insurance should cover it.

Edited by Hoping4Cure
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Hoping4Cure - Is there a way for us to private message? I really believe we can continue to make actual progress towards a cure together, but it probably doesn't need to be on a public board.

 

I'd rather let people read it, because you never know when someone will chime in (even a real doctor) with some pertinent info, even anonymously.

Edited by Hoping4Cure
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I'd rather let people read it, because you never know when someone will chime in (even a real doctor) with some pertinent info, even anonymously.

Alright - works for me.

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I already don't eat any wheat or wheat byproducts. That guy's a snake oil salesman and there is zero credible scientific evidence that this person actually was cured, or even really had type 1. Anectotal evidence on a guy's website who's trying to shill his book is total BS. If it worked, and so many type 1s are low-carb or no-carb, why aren't they screaming from the rooftops about being cured? They aren't shouting or making any noise, because they aren't cured. I'm so sick of these miracle cure diet gurus who are shucking and jiving people into false hope of an easy fix because "teh big bad food industry" is the cause of all ailments that befall human beings. Notwithstanding that people have been getting type 1 for thousands of years.

 

---------

Sitagliptin, a dipeptidyl peptidase-4 inhibitor, raises endogenous glucagon-like peptide-1 levels (GLP-1), and the PPI, lansoprazole, raises endogenous gastrin. The combination of GLP-1 and gastrin produced by these 2 drugs protected existing beta cells in the mice, regenerated new beta cells from the pancreatic exocrine duct cells, and at the same time stopped the autoimmune reaction against the new beta cells.

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/734370

 

Prevacid is the wrong search term to look for raising gastrin levels, you need to search for its medical name : lansoprazole

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140703142158.htm

 

However, merely raising GLP-1 and gastrin through those two drugs alone was not sufficient to show any difference. That's why taking verapamil at the same time as GLP-1 and Gastrin, over a longer period, I believe stands a better chance.

 

One of the studies there shows they are giving 30mg 2x per day of gastrin, which is 4x my current 1/day dose (15mg per pill). It costs like fifty bucks for a pack of 3 x 14 pills, so it could get expensive over time unless I score an RX for it. What's the medical reason I should give for needing to take it consistently? Instead of, say, for mere heartburn. It's Rx-only here in Canada, which is maybe a good thing because then my insurance should cover it.

 

I was diagnosed with GERD and esophogitus via a endoscopy.

  • GERD, or gastroesophageal reflux disease

Treatment is proton pump inhibitors. However, all you would have to do with a GP is say you have heartburn multiple times per day and they should write you a prescription for a PPI.

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OK, here's my plan:

 

GABA - 750mg / day (coming in the mail)

verapamil 480mg / day (started last week)

PPI (pantoprazole) 40mg / day (started about 8 months ago)

 

Try these for 3 months. If no results, then add GLP-1. Which one would be better you think (Bydureon or Januvia)?

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Hey folks, been reading your posts regarding Verapamil. I thank you for your links as well as the ones for the calculations for mouse model to human dosages. I was able to obtain Calan 240 mg SR tables and started taking half a tablet each morning. I began this on Thanksgiving... approximately 1 week ago. No problems so I'm going to begin upping my dosage to 120 mg in the am and another 120 mg in the pm. I will do that for another week or so before upping the dosage again. I would be afraid to take more than the max. amount of 480 mg/day though. Been a type 1 diabetic for 18 yrs now... my does time fly. Praying that this actually works. Seems like the most "real" thing that I have read in terms of new discoveries. Will post more in terms of my progress as the weeks progress. I am not expecting any miracles until my dosage goes up. The mouse models show a direct correlation between amount of verapamil.5 to 1 mg over a 15 and 30 day period. I didn't see any additional data after the 30 days which kinda sucks. I'd like to know if the Trend continues out with lower glucose readings. However being that diabetes was induced through STZ that particular data may not correlate to humans in regards to needing to continue to take verapamil on an on-going basis vs a long-term cure vs just a maintenance amount of verapamil needed to keep TXNiP levels low.

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Great! Welcome aboard the verapamil bandwagon. With more people trying it, it stands a better chance of working for at least someone. Maybe if we take different supplemental meds we can trade notes and figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

The official verapamil study isn't expecting miracles, but at least some beneficial effect, which, for the cost of taking a couple tiny pills per day with negligible side effects, is a worthwhile thing to do IMO.

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OK, here's my plan:

 

GABA - 750mg / day (coming in the mail)

verapamil 480mg / day (started last week)

PPI (pantoprazole) 40mg / day (started about 8 months ago)

 

Try these for 3 months. If no results, then add GLP-1. Which one would be better you think (Bydureon or Januvia)?

 

I'm personally hoping to get on Januvia to see if I can avoid the secondary effects of Victoza / Byrudeon / Byetta which are all very similar. Otherwise if I were you, try to get on Bydureon maybe, it has really good secondary effects for type 1s and will probably be approved by the FDA officially for type 1s at some point anyway. If you don't take too much, too fast, you should feel substantially better overall and that is a very good place to be in, in the quest to provide your fledgling beta cells the best environment in which to thrive.

 

We should be careful to not rush things, but also aware that increasing our own beta cell mass is not going to be easy, and it might not happen at all unless we take large amounts of these drugs, and that perhaps even over an extended period of several years. Or it could come quickly, once you take lots of Combo X of certain meds.

 

I have my blood sugar graphs to look at, but I won't bother until a few more weeks have gone by. I feel pretty good now generally but I'm being fairly strict on diet and sleep routine so that could easily explain it.

 

Lowering exogenous (external) insulin intake is also a way to stimulate beta cell growth. I mean, having high sugars in your blood stream, in normal people, results in beta cells growing precisely the right amount to compensate. That was in another study a couple years back, which made sense to me as well. So it may indeed be possible that sufficient doses verapamil on its own could allow one's natural neogenesis resulting from daily spikes of hyperglycemia to take its proper effect.

 

That was the theory of Faustman's BCG trials : if you get rid of the autoimmune attack which is the root cause (probably, or in combination with malfunctioning pain neurons) of type 1, then the beta cells should simply grow back on their own, given enough time. It could be either weeks, months or years, who knows.

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Ya I know, I don't drink grapefruit juice or eat grapefruit very often, but both my girlfriend and I read and re-read the warnings that came with the verapamil several times so I'm definitely steering clear of it.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Hoping4Cure

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Gastrin and EGF look promising for type 1 ... what approved drugs today have epidermal growth factor (EGF)? Are there any?

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Good question. We should investigate further.

 

I think getting 1 source of each (verapamil, GLP-1, and Gastrin) should be sufficient. Right now I'm taking 2/3, at low doses (probably lower than clinical studies). At the point where we have multiple sources of the same proteins or chemical, it becomes whichever sources are cheaper / easier to get or have the least side effects in the drugs that produce or contain them.

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I did the calculation on Verapamil again basically multiplying by 3/37 and I came out with 480mg being equivalent to the high dose they gave the mice. I've been taking that for a week with no side-effects. However, my resting heart rate has been consistently in the upper 50's. Blood pressure is normal.

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However, my resting heart rate has been consistently in the upper 50's. Blood pressure is normal.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah! I suppose a "resting heart rate" of 50 is good...if you want to be prepared to peel an orange without blowing out a valve...but I like to idle in the 90 to 100mmHg range...in case some odd monkey sex comes along. As I was taught in the Boy Scouts..."Be Prepared!" ;)

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What is your normal resting heart rate before verapamil? Also, do you mind telling me your weight? I am around 200lbs and was also thinking I needed around 450-500mg of verapamil/day. I guess I was initially under the impression that the mice were given almost twice that amount and that the 450-500 for me would be equivalent to the .5 low dose given to the mice. I already have a low heart rate of around 45 when resting so I hope it doesn't get lower.

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What is your normal resting heart rate before verapamil? Also, do you mind telling me your weight? I am around 200lbs and was also thinking I needed around 450-500mg of verapamil/day. I guess I was initially under the impression that the mice were given almost twice that amount and that the 450-500 for me would be equivalent to the .5 low dose given to the mice. I already have a low heart rate of around 45 when resting so I hope it doesn't get lower.

 

Normal resting heart rate was around 75 before verapamil. Blood pressure before / after verapamil has averaged 120/80. No other symptoms. Heart rate doesn't seem to be a problem. I might get worried below 50. I am an avid runner (6 miles or so 2 to 3 times per week). I weigh 170ish.

 

45 resting is low. I would go slow with the titration up and monitor hear rate blood pressure very, very often.

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reposting my calculations for translating Verapamil high dose to my weight / dose ...

 

Mouse high dose number 100mg/kg/day  ---- multiplying by 3/37, we get 8.1 mg/kg/day for a human for the high dose equivalent. So, for me at 77kg, this would equate to a 624mg/day dose. I'm sticking with 480mg/day which is close enough for me.

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One more thing that may help the Beta cell healing process. Lowering blood glucose levels ... kind of hard for Type 1's to lower BG and keep it that way, but it does make for a better environment for Beta cell healing. I'm think that a very low carb diet may be something to try at some point in combination with PPI and verapamil.

 

See this article ... seems to make sense.

 

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/Blog/David-Spero/can-beta-cells-be-healed/

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