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pumper

A Thread for Diabetic Weightlifters, Bodybuilders, Powerlifters & Fitness Lifters

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pumper

Hello everyone

 

I'm think that we should start a tread for people with diabetes who lift weights. This could be for fitness buffs, power lifters, olympic lifters, bodybuilders and any other type of weight lifters.

 

This thread could cover topics specific to diabetes and weightlifting such as:

-impact on insulin use (ie lowered, higher, basal rate changes)

-bodybuilding diets and the impact on blood sugars

-supplements (protein powders, creatine, etc...)

-ability to loose weight and drop BF% (ie getting 'cut')

-ability to put on muscle mass (ie 'bulking')

-types of workouts

-types of cardio

 

In addition, this could be a great forum for mutual support. Any comments, help, discussion from anyone would be great. I'd like other weightlifters/bodybuilders with Type I diabetes to post questions and answers and opinions on this tread, all in a diabetes context.

 

I've been bodybuilding on and off (mainly off recently...) for the last 10 years. There are often problems and adjustments that we need to make in bodybuilding in order to take our diabetes into account-in terms of blood sugars, insulins, etc...

 

I'm currently trying to get back into bodybuilding. I've always found that there is very little information out there about diabetes and bodybuilding.

 

So, considering that there are already a number of diabetic bodybuilders on this forum, why not pool the incrediable amout of experience, knowledge and wisdom about bodybuilding and diabetes.

 

So, anyone (with Diabetes), please post a question/suggestion for all to read and learn from.

 

Anyone willing to join in?

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xMenace

Ya,

 

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

 

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

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pumper

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

 

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

 

First off-saw your location...I'm originally from New Brunswick also...Near the Edmudston reagion, but haven't leaved there in a long time. Great to have anoher New Brunswicker here...

 

My two cents on protein powder. My brother-in-law is a bodybuilder (at near competitive level...) and he has never used ANY protein powders... So, I think that they are NOT ESSENTIAL to putting on mass. People who exercise alot do need more protein-but you and I should be able to get that protein from a balanced diet.

 

BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders. However, be aware, that many (but not all) protein powders have added sugar.

 

So, you lift?

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Evermont
...BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders...

 

I agree with you that protein powders are often not needed. As a somewhat muscular 22 year vegetarian I can tell you without reservation that I've never had the least interest in protein powders. Since Dx 5 months ago I've been doing regular cardio and strength training and I'm building muscle noticeably with balanced diet only. I get protein from a variety of sources, eggs (egg beaters), lowfat dairy products, beans, soy products, lentils, nuts, etc. I've taken the time and trouble to learn how to do this right and it's paying off. No shortcuts.

 

Now, I'm not out to impress anyone. Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat. My goal simply to lose weight slowly and steadily and by doing so, improve my insulin resistance.

 

I like free weights but use other equipment too.

 

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

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kstreeter513

I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

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pumper
Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat.

 

I like that way you say that...

 

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

 

Great! For now, I'm hoping on a really great thread. I fear that there arn't enough people with diabetes who lift weights to make a subforum a viable option (though I would love to be shown wrong that that one). So, it would be great if you were willing to join in a thread on this topic.

 

In terms of a subforum on nutrition, there should be enough general interest in the topic to make that a more viable option.

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pumper
I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

 

Just my opinion here...not that much experience to back it up. In my mind, the huge importance of the post workout meal is questionable. It makes sense on paper, but I'm not certain that it has been scientifically proven. Most of the articles that talk about the importance of the post workout meal are written by people who have no scientific training-so, in my mind, many of them might not know what they are talking about. My issue is that they talk about the post-exercise period as a time when the blood stream is COMPLETELY empty of all nutrients (carbs, proteins) which is something that I don't believe happens to that level, especially in a person with a good diet. However, it does make sense that the blood stream would have fewer nutrients in it.

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pumper
So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

 

Sorry dude for two postings-got interrupted.

 

My bottom line...You'll still pack on muscle even if you don't have a post-workout meal (or the "perfect") post workout meal because in my opinion, there are always nutrients floating around in your blood stream and because your body rebuilds muscle for several days after a workout. So, your window of opportunity shouldn't be that short (ie, its not like you only have 1 hr in which a post-workout meal is effective...)

 

Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

 

Let me know what you think.

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xMenace
So, you lift?

 

I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts ;)

 

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

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BlueSky
.... if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.....

 

I think that is one of those YMMV things. I have always been lean and have had great difficulty building muscle. This was in spite of strenuous resistance workouts and eating lots of meat, fish, chiken and eggs at meal times. It all changed when I started having a full-cream milk based protein shake after resistance workouts. I lost a lot of muscle while recovering from a back injury. Post-workout protein shakes enabled me to build a fair amount of muscle very quickly. I was delighted, and I am still kicking myself for relying on mealtime protein for all those years :o ....

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pumper
I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts ;)

 

Excellent-you've got the exact opposite problem that most bodybuilders have...(ie huge upper body, tiny legs). Like you, I find that I can put mass on my legs much more easily than anywhere else... and a good pair of muscular legs can be as inpressive as a good bicep peak.

 

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

 

Wow-lifting with your son... won't you be the cool dad (I can only hope to do the same with my own kids when they get old enough (currently in the "oven"...). Good luck with that!!!

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kstreeter513
Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

See, this is where I am strange I suppose. My exercise of choice is running so to keep from going low during a run (which happens very quickly if I don't adjust insulin) I reduce my basal insulin about three hours before I start. By the time I begin my jog, my BG is about 150, and my circulating insulin is low.

 

For runs under one hour, a normal I:C ratio works well to cover any post exercise carbs. For runs lasting 2+ hrs., I need to approximately triple the insulin to cover a given number of carbs even though my BG's are always around 100 when I finish running.

 

My only guess here is that my stress hormones (glucagon, epinephrine, etc.) are extremely elevated due to the energy demands placed on my body. I think it takes that much more insulin to bring these hormones down to a normal level. If I don't triple the insulin, the sugars will easily be in the 300-400 two hours later.

 

I do, however notice that after the initial PWO bolus, I will be very insulin sensitive for the next few DAYS following a long run.

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Sugarhead

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.

I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

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pumper
I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.

I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

 

Yes, I've heard of that, but I'm not quite certain how to do it... I know that non-diabetic bodybuilders take insulin as a growth hormone (which is very dangerous) but obviously how they do it might not apply to you and I...

 

I'm currently trying to figure that out myself and have a few good leads on it. I'll post something here once I've figured it out.

 

But maybe some other people on this thread know how to do it?

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Scratch
I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.

I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

 

Here's an idea. It may not be sexy and fast, but it will work.

 

The secret to getting fitter, to getting in better shape, the secret is putting in the time and working at it.

 

If you want to get leaner, you need to watch what you eat.

 

If you want to get more muscular, you'll need to do strength training, you can use weights or bodyweight exercises for that.

 

I think it's dangerous when people and we're all susceptible to this, think about how can we shortcut the process. When we think, "Instead of thinking how if I work at it for year where will I be, how can I maybe just mess around with how I dose my insulin to have everything happen faster?"

 

From what I've been able to do and learn about over the past year, I think guys like Ross Enamait have good programs to teach people about the principles behind getting in better shape, becoming more fit, more muscular, and losing fat. Stonglifts.com is another decent site with good advice.

 

Following those principles and working at them consistently will make you leaner and more muscular as long as you follow your diabetic responsibilities of doing your best to make your metabolism function like the normal population's.

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JadeMonkey

I've done a bit of strength training and lifting but have been out of it since the middle of last year and need to get back into it. Trying to do things the "right" way and just beginning my real education on the subject.

 

I have found that having a protein shake right after my workout helps reduce how sore I get in the following days. (I am always fine the day after lifting, it's the day after that when I get really sore). I'm not sure if an equal amount of non-powdered protein would have the same effect but I'm sure it probably would.

 

I'm looking forward to learning from you guys, any suggestions or tips are much appreciated. Any good forums out there for guys that want to get bigger/leaner but not necessarily pro level? I'm checking out the sites that Scratch listed now; pretty sure he meant stronglifts .com

 

-Jade

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Sugarhead

yes I have read about the non-diabetics using insulin to help with muscle growth. I am not necessarily looking for a short cut (althought that would be great) but to be efficient with the taking of insulin. I have to take it anyways why not make it as efficient as possible? I do take a protein shake after lifting with a small amount of carb. Also, I have taken half a recovery type drink (protein and Carb) before with a little insulin. Since my lifting takes about 40 min it should be working at the time I am entering the recovery stage. After lifting I take the rest. I find it works pretty well and my sugars are stable. I do a BG test half way through my workout and adjust slightly for different types of training. For example I take less insulin when doing legs and more when doing arms/abs. Those legs just suck up the sugar in the blood stream.

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sedita

If you haven't already read it, a great book is: Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

 

I have been an off and on lifter. Currently trying to get my cardiovascular fitness back and once I have base with that then I will be jumping back into the lifting.

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pumper
I'm looking forward to learning from you guys, any suggestions or tips are much appreciated. Any good forums out there for guys that want to get bigger/leaner but not necessarily pro level? I'm checking out the sites that Scratch listed now; pretty sure he meant stronglifts .com

 

-Jade

 

Dude, in terms of other forums, I read:

A Thread for people with Type I Diabetes (Insulin-dependent) Only - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Any body builders out there?? - Diabetes Forum

diabetes and bodybuilding - Diabetes Forum

 

All of these sites have alot of great people who know alot about diabetes and bodybuilding. I post to these sites using a similar screen name to here.

 

I've never checked out Stronglifts.com-will have to...

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pumper
I am not necessarily looking for a short cut (althought that would be great) but to be efficient with the taking of insulin. I have to take it anyways why not make it as efficient as possible?

 

My feelings exactly...

 

I take less insulin when doing legs and more when doing arms/abs. Those legs just suck up the sugar in the blood stream.

 

I'm just getting back into bodybuilding myself plus I'm a new pumper so really, I'm getting used to workingout with a pump. But, your comment on needing less insulin for leg workouts and more for arm/abs workouts makes sense. Thinking back on it, i think that my past blood sugars on leg vs arm days suggest that the same applies to me. I've just never made this correlation before. But, considering that legs are huge muscle groups and that arms are small muscle groups (no matter how much we want large biceps), this makes sense.

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Scratch

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

 

I ended up performing an unplanned experiment yesterday. The day had been going well up until 2 PM when I checked my blood sugar after lunch and realized that I had forgotten my bolus injection. Prior to that, all my previous tests had been under 100 mg/dl and bam -- 354 mg/dl. Oy. I guess that's why I had been feeling progressively more sluggish while I had been working on a project at work.

 

So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

 

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

 

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

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1type2go

POTATOS!!!kstreeter513

with muscles like a sponge 50gs of carbs add a can of drained salmon and a bit of low fat cheese Ya got 30 to 35g of protein ........an hour of weightlifting you can count on cutting back on your shot (for me I'm a no rest lifter I'd cut it in half )unless your going ta eat for it ...Thats My Choice!.

Keep the heart rate up at least over 100bpm ,bring it up with 5 or 10min of cardio Target Heart Rate Calculator

 

Don't forget to take a box of raisins and juice besides your water and

 

 

well I could go on ......

 

Donovan

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kstreeter513
I ended up performing an unplanned experiment yesterday. The day had been going well up until 2 PM when I checked my blood sugar after lunch and realized that I had forgotten my bolus injection. Prior to that, all my previous tests had been under 100 mg/dl and bam -- 354 mg/dl. Oy. I guess that's why I had been feeling progressively more sluggish while I had been working on a project at work.

 

So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

 

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

 

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

 

Thats very interesting. I have thought about giving an injection into my muscle before, but I ended up being afraid of going hypo too quickly. Maybe I will try that experiment on my own to see if it works for me.

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1type2go

Juts a word of opinion

when you chk the sites ....these are not diabetics.

Build Muscle & Lose Fat through Strength Training | StrongLifts.com

this is a great site!! I wouldn't have found it on my own THANX

5x5 for beginner .......I'd be flat on the floor, I think

I do believe in whole body in the beginning, make sure you've got long burn carbs (low GI )on board ,take a box of raisins and a juice besides your liter of water , start with legs to get your protein synth. going.

Start with lighter weights as much as you can for 8-10 ,slower reps with concentration,if you can't do slow it may be too much weight ,.....mabey for three sets ,this is for strength not mass but you need strength first before injury:T

 

Soon you'll find you could do more than 8-10 reps ...Time to increase the weight so you cant do more than 10reps!! last rep

I my self, work opposing muscle groups pec/traps, bi's/tri's, that sort of thing

 

If you think about what you're doing ...yur gonna feel it the next day or day after

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pumper
So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

 

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

 

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

 

Yes, injecting insulin into (or near) a muscle that you are going to vigorously use will always speed up its absorption (ie injecting into the legs and going for a run will make that insulin start working faster).

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