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dobbs

Alpha Lipoic Acid

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Subby

Good info. At this stage, I'll be wanting to clear up if even this dose is implicated in such nasty effects before I would increase the dose. I don't really have significant neuropathy issues, if at all (some neuropathy type effects do sometimes crop up, depending on current control), so such a benefit is debatable for me anyway.

 

Hmmm, this ammonia/cat pee issue with exercise has a few theories flying out there. One is people reporting that coffee can create this issue for them, and today I had two coffees, one of them right before the workout, which I would normally not do. I may have done it more in the past few weeks, as my coffee addiction has crept up since christmas. Interesting. Looks like I have a few things to test out as well as the ALA.

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MCS

The caffeine, if you are susceptible to it, could have given you an adrenalin boost which would

be noticeable in your sweat. Maybe the ALA just magnified the situation.

 

Good info: at this stage, I'll be wanting to clear up if even this dose is implicated in such nasty effects before I would increase the dose! I don't really have significant neuropathy issues, if at all (some neuropathy type effects do sometimes crop up, depending on current control), so such a benefit is debatable for me anyway.

 

Hmmm, this ammonia/cat pee issue with exercise has a few theories flying out there. One is people reporting that coffee can create this issue for them, and today I had two coffees, one of them right before the workout, which I would normally not do. I may have done it more in the past few weeks, as my coffee addiction has crept up since christmas. Interesting. Looks like I have a few things to test out as well as the ALA.

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Hooterville

This is purely non-scientific but I'm T2 and am taking 2000 Met per day, 20 MG Glipizide per day and 24 units of Lantus since November. One week ago I decided to try ALA, 600 mg. I took it with dinner. I wasn't even thinking about BG benefits, I was thinking about neuropathy and prevention of it. I just have a little tingling in my feet. That night I was testing a so-called low glycemic index sprouted wheat berry bread. I was 94 before dinner. 2 hr. PP I was 76. I'm thinking this is mighty fine bread. Wasn't even thinking about the ALA having an effect on my BG at this time. 3 hr. PP, I was alarmed by a very numb tongue. I thought I was having an allergic reaction. I decided to test and found myself at 58 BG. I ate some very carby food and 10 minutes after that ws at 47!

 

I've never been lower than the 60's before this. I think it was the ALA. I was alarmed by the low and called endo the next day and was told to stop the ALA and come in which I did today. Endo does not think it was the ALA that caused the low. I'm inclined to think it was because it was so dramatic and so not normal for me. Never happened before and hasn't happened since. I ate the same meal several days later and 2 hr. PP was at 120.

 

My numbers have gotten low enough that endo and I decided to taper me off the Glipizide. After I'm off the Glipizide I'm going to give the ALA another try. I admit to being a little nervous about taking the 600 MG again. I think I'm going to start out slow and build up the dose. Just going to wait until I get the Glipizide out of my system before adding the ALA back. I don't want to confuse things. Will let you all know how it goes in a few weeks.

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IrinaHarr

Insulin using diabetics are supposed to reduce dose of insulin with R-ALA, according to Dr. Bernstein book that is. And he suggests one should take it with some plant oil to increase effectiveness (I will look it up) plus biotin. He recommends to stay away from ALA if one had cancer in the past or has family history of cancer on account ALA is an antioxidant and cancer cells thrive on antioxidants. He recommends R-ALA for lowering BG when nothing else helps, I have not got to the chapter about complications treatment yet.

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Subby
The caffeine, if you are susceptible to it, could have given you an adrenalin boost which would

be noticeable in your sweat. Maybe the ALA just magnified the situation.

 

Well, in my urgency to not have a repeat performance, I skipped my ALA and didn't have a coffee within 2 hours. Same activity, no issue whatsoever beyond the usual basic perspiration effect. So it's either, or both! Going to resume the ALA and keep away from the coffee, and hope that was the main cause.

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MCS

Another response from adrenalin sweat is sweating in particular areas as opposed to a body wide sweat to cool your body off. Adrenalin sweat will be mostly located under your arms, hands and feet. Adrenalin sweat releases other compounds injunction with water.

 

 

Well, in my urgency to not have a repeat performance, I skipped my ALA and didn't have a coffee within 2 hours. Same activity, no issue whatsoever beyond the usual basic perspiration effect. So it's either, or both! Going to resume the ALA and keep away from the coffee, and hope that was the main cause.

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IrinaHarr

Found the name of oil - evening primrose oil. Dr. Bernstein says R-ALA is insulin mimetic, sometimes causes hypoglycemia in diabetics who inject insulin if they do not adjust their insulin dosages accordingly. But he has never seen hypoglycemia when R-ALA used without insulin.

 

Also, he says German studies has shown dramatic improvement in diabetic neuropathy when administered intravenously in large doses over several weeks. But it falls under "do not try this at home" category. This proves that taking ALA helps with neuropathy issues.

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algarve7
Well, in my urgency to not have a repeat performance, I skipped my ALA and didn't have a coffee within 2 hours. Same activity, no issue whatsoever beyond the usual basic perspiration effect. So it's either, or both! Going to resume the ALA and keep away from the coffee, and hope that was the main cause.

 

Coffee does have quite a significant effect on the body, so this is probably a good thing. I tend to drink lots of green tea made with green tea powder. The caffeine in that doesn't have the same kind of fast-acting effect that coffee does. Plus green tea appears to have some anti-diabetic effects. To sweeten things up, some pure stevia powder and chunks of butter for calories to keep going. This shouldn't increase BG from my experience. Adding some other spices such as cinnamon to the tea should enhance the BG lowering effects.

 

I'm starting to think that to get high enough tissue levels of ALA, a higher dose might be necessary at the one time. Time release would release the ALA in small amounts over a longer period of time so it doesn't get into all the tissues to reverse any (early stage) neuropathy, nerve damage etc. This is where intravenous ALA can be used, for example 300-1200mg IV to achieve higher tissue levels. Anyone with advanced neuropathy should think about intravenous ALA about once weekly or more often, combined with oral ALA. I haven't seen any side effects from 300-600mg IV ALA.

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Subby

To clarify, I'm not stopping my coffee drinking - just not taking it right before a work out. :) Actually one of these days I might do just that, to see if it replicates the problem so I know for sure.

 

I drink lots of different things myself. I enjoy various teas according to the occasion. Must admit I haven't done the chunks of butter thing. Don't know that I prescribe to the idea that we should constantly consume calories to keep going - my body seem to do best when it's humming along by itself, in between moderate pit stops of food.

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algarve7
Insulin using diabetics are supposed to reduce dose of insulin with R-ALA, according to Dr. Bernstein book that is. And he suggests one should take it with some plant oil to increase effectiveness (I will look it up) plus biotin. He recommends to stay away from ALA if one had cancer in the past or has family history of cancer on account ALA is an antioxidant and cancer cells thrive on antioxidants. He recommends R-ALA for lowering BG when nothing else helps, I have not got to the chapter about complications treatment yet.

 

The jury is still out on whether cancer would thrive on ALA. There are many research papers that actually suggest quite the opposite in fact for ALA. ALA is routinely used for cancer patients who are often suffering from neuropathy caused by chemotherapy drugs. People on chemotherapy benefit from high doses of ALA to enhance the effects of the anticancer drugs and reduce or prevent side effects. There is some good clinical work that supports the use of antioxidants such as ALA in cancer treatment. So basically it's a complicated issue. So for cancer I say, with chemo, yes, without chemo, maybe.

 

Cancer cells usually have significantly more insulin receptors, so I guess we can say that cancer cells thrive on insulin. This I think is a good reason to minimise the amount of injected insulins and avoid some types of insulin which have somewhat higher cancer risk. But the data is still coming in so we'll have to wait and see.

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algarve7
To clarify, I'm not stopping my coffee drinking - just not taking it right before a work out. :) Actually one of these days I might do just that, to see if it replicates the problem so I know for sure.

 

I drink lots of different things myself. I enjoy various teas according to the occasion. Must admit I haven't done the chunks of butter thing. Don't know that I prescribe to the idea that we should constantly consume calories to keep going - my body seem to do best when it's humming along by itself, in between moderate pit stops of food.

 

I've seen good effects on BG from drinking various teas. I guess tea is like a water extract that gets out some of the active ingredients. I gave up coffee completely a few years ago because of side effects such as it being a diuretic. It took about a month to completely wean off the addictive effects. Then I felt good after long term avoidance, except maybe the very occasional one which doesn't cause any real trouble.

 

 

Don't know that I prescribe to the idea that we should constantly consume calories to keep going - my body seem to do best when it's humming along by itself, in between moderate pit stops of food.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing. Taking a the calories at one time and then having nothing until the next proper meal might be better. I can't see myself being able to survive long without food on a carby diet though. On a protein/fat diet it's no problem to eat nothing between meals or stretch out the time.

 

I started to have the tea & butter with meals or instead of a meal if I want to do a kind of "fasting" to allow BG to go right down. In some European countries butter is commonly used instead of milk or cream.

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Jessinwondering

Gosh, am I ever glad to find this thread! I have been taking Insulow (with biotin in it) along with EPO for about a week now, and noticed my urine smelling funny whenever I empty my bladder within an hour or so after taking the Insulow. It's like I was eating asparagus!! I guess I can relax a bit now. I'm not alone!

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Seagal
R-form is unstable, so it would be important to get a stabilized form such as Na (sodium) R-Lipoic Acid. I couldn't tell whether Insulow was stabilized or not. The most common form is R/S-ALA. I don't think there is an S-ALA.

 

Regular R/S-ALA is effective at doses around 1200mg or more, so if stabilized R-Lipoic Acid isn't available or too expensive, it's still ok and has been well tested in clinical trials in diabetes patients.

 

 

This is from Insulow's site: "Unless they specify otherwise, "lipoic acid" supplements are a 50/50 mixture of the natural R(+)-lipoic acid, and the synthetic S(-)-lipoic acid. These mixtures are called "racemates." In some cases, S(-)-lipoic acid - or the racemate - is simply less effective than R(+)-lipoic acid. But in other cases, the S(-)-form actually acts in opposition to the R(+)."

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the R/S form of ALA, perhaps you could mention a site or paper that discusses?

 

Thanks.

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Seagal
One week ago I decided to try ALA, 600 mg.

 

What made you decide on such a large dose? Haven't researched plain ala very much, do they recommend large doses for neuropathy prevention? The Insulow dose is 100mg. per capsule and recommended two per meal (course it is twice as effective as the plain or S form).

 

Amazing that you went that low, gotta be a combo of your meds and exercise. Great that you are going to be reducing or eliminating your glip.

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Hooterville
What made you decide on such a large dose? Haven't researched plain ala very much, do they recommend large doses for neuropathy prevention? The Insulow dose is 100mg. per capsule and recommended two per meal (course it is twice as effective as the plain or S form).

 

Amazing that you went that low, gotta be a combo of your meds and exercise. Great that you are going to be reducing or eliminating your glip.

 

Seagal, this is a very old thread. That was a long time ago that I took 600 mg of the regular ALA. 600 mg was a dose that was available in my little town. If regular is half as effective as R-ALA and Bernstein recommends 200 mg three times per day (600 mg per day) then I thought it would be ok. I haven't been on Glipizide for a year. Hate that drug. Once I got rid of the Glipizide, I was able to take those 600 mg of regular ALA with no problem.

 

I've been taking Insulow (R-ALA and biotin) 200 mg three times per day for 6 to 8 months now.

 

The only prescription meds I'm taking are Metformin, Lantus and Rx strength ibuprofen.

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Seagal

Did not even look at the dates of the thread......thanks for the heads-up, guess that is why I didn't get an answer to the question I asked of algarve7.

 

note to self......check dates of threads before posting:) Usually they have a "warning" that you can respond, but make it relevent, didn't see one.

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raz

I wanted to share this... I started taking Krill oil a month ago. I have no idea why but I no longer have pain in my feet when I walk. There is still some numbness but no pain. It is the first time in 5 years. I would imagine it's because Krill oil greatly improves circulation so the nerves are being fed again. Since it's an anti clogging agent you should talk to you doctor first. The dosage I take is 500mg in the morning and 500mg at night. Best thing that's happened to me since neuropathy hit me.

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