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MCS

Do things not only look different but feel different

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princesslinda

MCS, i'm with you and granny, what a difference a few changes have made in the last few weeks. I'm loving the new format, we've got quite a few more new and interesting members in the mix AND a new chat room format.

 

Vive la Difference! Thanks Tony for our great new look! Thanks also to our members, old and new, for you are truly the heart of DF!

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Tony

What excatly are we talking about if it's not the format?

 

Oh they ARE different . . . very different now.

 

Maybe its just me

 

it's different all right ... obviously different ... and has little to do with format, I'm guessing.

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MCS

I sit here at my desk pretty much every day. I have learned a great deal from this place and like to think I had contributed back some. But lately and it just happens to coincide with the new format I am sure, is the lack of serious debate over anything. People like me with a desire to learn whats going on in her head, his head, and my body thru an active discussion has seem to trail off a bit. I may be off base here, I usually see things differently than most. I have noticed that a few members don't seem to post here any more and I miss there wisdom and candid approach.

 

 

What excatly are we talking about if it's not the format?

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Tony

This is not a debate forum it's a support forum. It's about helping others find their way through diabetes, not pushing our way down their throat. Not pressuring them to use the same methods you use. I started this forum not to debate about methods, but to help myself with diabetes and others, and to seek out others like themselves so they too could see that they were not alone. Everytime there is a debate it scares away new members. There is nothing wrong with the way you take care of your diabetes and there's nothing wrong with stating it, but there is something wrong with pushing it on other people.

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MCS

I agree 100%, I would never advocate that person (A) do the same as me, and I wouldn't want person (B) telling me how I should do things. But what I do look for is person (B) telling me how they are treating themselves, why in there opinon its working, and a discussion on the merits of there decision. I expect the same of myself when I post my findings. How can you give support to each other with out telling them what you have done to better yourself and the rationale behind your decisions. You say you do not want a debate forum, but if member (a) post hey if you stuff olives in your ear for a week it will lower your BG levels, do you want that information out there for newbies to see and believe. I have touched a nerve in you, and I appologize for the position I have put you in. But I will also over look the post you made and assume you were talking about some one else when you mentioned pushing it down thier throat, because I pay special attention to my remarks. I always phrase them as, this is how I did it, this is what worked for me, I did this because.

 

 

This is not a debate forum it's a support forum. It's about helping others find their way through diabetes, not pushing our way down their throat. Not pressuring them to use the same methods you use. I started this forum not to debate about methods, but to help myself with diabetes and others, and to seek out others like themselves so they too could see that they were not alone. Everytime there is a debate it scares away new members. There is nothing wrong with the way you take care of your diabetes and there's nothing wrong with stating it, but there is something wrong with pushing it on other people.

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plattb1
This is not a debate forum it's a support forum. It's about helping others find their way through diabetes, not pushing our way down their throat. Not pressuring them to use the same methods you use. I started this forum not to debate about methods, but to help myself with diabetes and others, and to seek out others like themselves so they too could see that they were not alone. Everytime there is a debate it scares away new members. There is nothing wrong with the way you take care of your diabetes and there's nothing wrong with stating it, but there is something wrong with pushing it on other people.

 

well, your support forum only supports theories, ideas, opinions, that the mods consider mainstream and/or in line with their thinking. that is not how support forums work. to work well, members and their posts must be equitably handled. they have not been of late.

 

if you look back at my history, I would be amazed if you find a single instance where I state that my way is the only way - or even the best way. as far as I will ever go is that it works for me.

 

as to new members, I don't much think you have to worry. with the rate of diabetes increasing exponentially, there continues to be new members.

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Scout

From what I've seen here since I joined most people never say, "This is is the ONLY way, the best way, because it is MY way." In fact, I've seen that from only a couple of posters, and yes, they do get challenged by other posters on those statements. This, IMO, is a good thing because it always brings forth a discussion on the pros and cons of the different methods people use to control their diabetes. Knowledge is power and I know I've learned a lot here about the Big D, and in many cases, I wouldn't have learned if there hadn't been a spirited debate going on about methodology.

 

But I do think things have been ... less than even-handed... of late when it pertains to the handling of certain threads and certain posters. I do recognize and respect, however, that this is not my call, and I know moderating is a difficult and often thankless job.

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Jan B

Since nobody will come out and say it . . . it's about the low-carb thing, I'm pretty sure. Or that is a big part of it.

 

If people want to shove their low-carb (yeah, I've been guilty lately too) ideas down other people's throats, they will be stopped. This is an equal opportunity forum; not a low-carb forum.

 

When something works so well, and they are excited about it, they think everyone should do it. Me, I'm guilty again. We just have to be very diplomatic and careful.

 

Above all, respect the moderators and Tony. I've seen the respect toward our moderators go downhill, and that is WRONG in my opinion. Just WRONG.

 

Thanks so much for all your work Linda, Nancy and Tony.

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Tony

There were no nerves hit here. I appreciate that you pay special attention to your remarks. I was talking about other memebers when I say that they are pushing it down peoples throats. we have a moderator that is low carb and she in no way goes to great lenghts to make people see or agree with her. Yes we want to hear how you have done it, and how it works for you, That is a big help, I just don't think that reitterating it over and over again is helpful, especially when that is not what everyone is here for. This is an equal oppertunity forum. We do not only support main stream theories, ideas, or opinions that are in line with the mods thinking. all members are important here, we are all here for a purpose. The moderators try their best to equitably handle all posts. They are on a post by post basis, but there are times when we see a low carb theme and to others it feels like there they are being bullied by it, not everyone has it in them to debate. Some people feel it is arguing and they have enough going on in their lives to not want to argue here. They just want suport. I think that long term members are used to the long term members and that the debate between them is fine, but for the new people they do feel bullied. If you want I can add a low carb forum or a debate forum, let me know.

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Harold
Since nobody will come out and say it . . . it's about the low-carb thing, I'm pretty sure. Or that is a big part of it.

 

If people want to shove their low-carb (yeah, I've been guilty lately too) ideas down other people's throats, they will be stopped. This is an equal opportunity forum; not a low-carb forum.

 

When something works so well, and they are excited about it, they think everyone should do it. Me, I'm guilty again. We just have to be very diplomatic and careful.

 

Above all, respect the moderators and Tony. I've seen the respect toward our moderators go downhill, and that is WRONG in my opinion. Just WRONG.

 

Thanks so much for all your work Linda, Nancy and Tony.

Thank You Jan, you have pinned the tail on the donkey.

 

We have had complaints from new and old members about how they are treated by the low-carbers. When a new member asks or does not even asks for ideas they get swarmed with low-carb advice. I said swarmed because as soon as some mentions any other approach the responses come back like anything from "how do you question my" to "they (the mainstream) are wrong."

 

This statement is totally wrong and displays what I am talking about. There is not one moderator here that has not made a recommendation to lower carbs to one new member or another. Not often and no need to recently with the swarm we know will descend on new comers.

well, your support forum only supports theories, ideas, opinions, that the mods consider mainstream and/or in line with their thinking. that is not how support forums work. to work well, members and their posts must be equitably handled. they have not been of late.

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Jan B

Hi Harold! I'm sorry I didn't thank you too, Mr. Night Owl ;) (in my world.) Thank you.

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DeusXM

I think it's quite obvious that some regular posters have chosen to leave the forum.

 

Let's look at the sorts of people who appear to have left.

 

They do all appear to be people who spent the majority of their threads posting studies 'proving' the benefits of low-carbs. The result was many, many of the threads on this board essentially stopped being about managing diabetes and the board instead turned into a battleground for people have p***ing contests about the 'best' diet. Yours truly is just as guilty of that and I've already offered my apologies to mods for that numerous times, and I'll offer them here to the rest of the board (active members or not) as well. And to any other people who would have joined the board if it hadn't at times looked like an extension of a secondary school debating society.

 

This is a board designed to help people manage all aspects of their diabetes, not argue over one diet or another. It's up to you whether you think that fact might speak volumes about the people who've left, and the people who are still here.

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foxl

I believe in evidence based diabetes management.

 

If we do not mull and debate, and yes, even argue, the evidence, how can we decide just what that is ... for ourselves, as individuals, and particularly when it goes against deeply-ingrained belief, for some of us?

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Scout

As a fairly recent newcomer myself I can say that I never felt 'swarmed' when I posted, and in fact, I appreciated the fact that people actually replied to threads here. Which is why I also try to make it a point to say hi to new people on the intro board so they will feel welcomed and comfortable here. I can't recall that I ever overwhelmed anyone with low carb advice, rather I ask them what they are currently doing, or reply to a specific question that is asked.

 

Maybe I am missing something, and maybe there is more history than I've seen, but the only threads I've seen about low carb have generally been labelled *low carb* in one form or another, so it seems to me that IS the appropriate place to discuss low carb and a natural one for people to debate the pros and cons low carb eating with regards to diabetes.

 

Most of the time those threads have been quite civilized, and yes, often heavy on the science, until someone comes on the thread who loathes low carb and attempts to derail the thread. Not from a science-based perspective (which I for one, would welcome - I want to LEARN), but from a personal bias. Repeated posts of what I call the 'nyah-nyah' variety which do not contain pertinent content, tend to derail the thread. (i.e. if you want to debate the merits or disadvantages, come prepared to actually debate not just restate your personal prefences endlessly and with increasing hostility.)

 

It's great to see the responsiveness here and the offer of a low carb or debate forum is very much appreciated. My own take would be that ane entire low carb is not necessary but perhaps labelling low carb threads clearly all the time would be a good idea.

 

Again, these forums are great, and I know you guys all work hard to keep them that way, and I do appreciate that very much.

 

However, I will say that now I rather feel I am stepping on eggs if I mention low carb in any form. I don't want to be accused of 'swarming' anyone, or being part of a swarm. And since I do low carb to control my diabetes, I am now feeling uncomfortable, as if there is some unwritten rule about when one should or should not post about low carbing. It's as if, should I be the second person in a thread to say low carbing works for me, it's okay, but if I happen to post later and am the sixth person, it's not okay. It becomes confusing.

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plattb1

I do not advocate one way of diabetes management over another. For myself, I am moderately low carb at best - I aim for less than 100g per day. While I recognize the value of super low carbing for many & might try it again at some point, life is a balancing act & it doesn't fit into my life at this moment. What I do is eat real whole food, minimally processed, and I buy (or grow) local or organic whenever I can. I also do most of my own cooking, concentrating on this way of eating. That's NOT pushing a low carb eating plan in my book.

 

Of late, it's actually the folks pushing the use of insulin to the exclusion of other BG methods who insist that their way is the only way. And, a quick review of other D forums shows that this is not new behavior for them (they've cut & pasted the same message over & over.) So, it might be more equitable to rein them in instead of hitting the low carbers over the head ... again.

 

As I said, from the viewpoint of being a low carber, I have no dog in this fight. But, from the viewpoint of having a supportive diabetes forum from which I can learn and help others, I feel very strongly.

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MCS

I see I opened up Pandoras Box, you just never know about these things until you ask.

 

TONY I would think a new forum would be highly appropriate: DIABETES DISCUSSIONS or something like that. I would also if possible flash a page before entering of the rules.

 

1.) Criticize ideas and opinions not the person presenting them, no personal attacks

 

2.) Thats all I got, thats the most important thing in my opinion.

 

This would provide an area where members could discuss there opinions openly and with conviction. It would also shield newbies until they are ready to discuss thier own opinions on how they plan on treating themselves.

 

Also, if I hadn't thanked you yet for putting this forum together and the moderators for thier work I do so now, Thank you

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Subby

I must admit I'm not that enthused at dividing off standards of behaviour for different sub-forums. It sounds like a big moderating job. It sounds like giving up on the idea of running a place so that it generically stays within non-antisocial bounds. I don't understand why anti-social people can't just be invited to leave before they become the kind of issue they have in the past.

 

I'd agree with the sentiment to reign in dominating behaviour in whatever the source. Low carbers can have their own brand of proliferating their message, and some strong examples jump to mind, but likewise over the last year or so there have been truly obnoxious non-low carbers as well. Make repetitive, dominating behaviour, whatever the message, unnaceptable, and I think you get to the heart of the matter, if the matter is keeping a vibrant, varied and useful place. As mods you have the power to define what "dominating" behaviour is. As a user I can say that I've seen many examples of extemely dominating behaviour go uncommented on. Isn't the main issue encouraging or making sure people play fair with each other, similar to if you were conversing face to face? How many times does anyone have to sprouk repetition of their message over the crowd or another member, before it becomes objectionable and antisocial, even if the tone and words themselves "get away with it"? A fight is a fight, a row is a row, an irritant is an irritant. I don't think it takes all that many times, and I think that this behaviour is at the heart of the issue, not the material they are pushing.

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plattb1
I'd agree with the sentiment to reign in dominating behaviour in whatever the source. Low carbers can have their own brand of proliferating their message, and some strong examples jump to mind, but likewise over the last year or so there have been truly obnoxious non-low carbers as well. Make repetitive, dominating behaviour, whatever the message, unnaceptable, and I think you get to the heart of the matter, if the matter is keeping a vibrant, varied and useful place. As mods you have the power to define what "dominating" behaviour is. As a user I can say that I've seen many examples of extemely dominating behaviour go uncommented on. Isn't the main issue encouraging or making sure people play fair with each other, similar to if you were conversing face to face? How many times does anyone have to sprouk repetition of their message over the crowd or another member, before it becomes objectionable and antisocial, even if the tone and words themselves "get away with it"? A fight is a fight, a row is a row, an irritant is an irritant. I don't think it takes all that many times, and I think that this behaviour is at the heart of the issue, not the material they are pushing.

 

well said, Subby!

 

I actually think low carbers are being maligned in this instance. It is the behavior - not the content.

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Subby

Completely seperate to this issue (as far as I know) Marty's OP did strike a chord to me, I have increasingly noticed less T1 control and technical information requests occuring. It really is an extremely slow trickle these days. Gee, that sounds exciting says everyone else... but it is a vital role that DF has provided in the past. The T1 who has been given inadequate information and struggled on for years - well, lets just say I doubt they are uncommon, I think they would be a majority. Finding a place like DF where you can get a range of views but there is a vague sense of standard (it's not all off with the pixies or "there there") - that's why it is unique. Yet there just isn't much information gathering going on in that area, which I find a shame. I don't know why, I just find it a shame. That's what DF primarily gave me: more enabled control, via updated and intelligent information, some debate, alternative views being expressed, issues being defended or explained (the debates that get obnoxious, though, usually destroy their usefullness). Providing me with avenues to explore and some pointers on the way to explore them. DF played a role in helping give me back my life through those things.

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Carwy

This place has changed. Maybe I need to get back on here. I have been gone for a while with school and other issues. Sorry I was gone for so long.

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