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Delphinus

Plavix and vision problems...

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Delphinus

Before I start my rant, I want to thank all of you again for adding to my heart attack thread. I learn more from my friends here (family is really what you are) then some stuffy doctors who couldn't care any less about their patients. So thank you all for that!

 

Did some reading on the forum already but nothing specifically about this issue. Not that I spotted anyway.

 

First off, I have(had?) excellent vision. Let me tell you about it... I could be sitting here in my room in Halifax, Nova Scotia and look out the window and see a family in China sitting down to dinner. That is how good my vision is.

 

A few days after I started to take Plavix, my vision turned to hazy and blurry at best. I have it narrowed down to the Plavix. I think anyway.

 

The past few days posting here and doing my thing online has been very difficult. I have very strong reading glasses on and my face mashed into my monitor just to be able to read.

 

If I didn't know the keyboard so well, this may not even be legible.

 

I am taking one 75mg pill a day and my quality of life has actually gone down hill. My doctor is very adamant I continue taking it or I could die.

 

I did a significant amount of research and apparently there is no actual evidence it is any better then aspirin and in people who have high BP and high cholesterol it can even put them at greater risk for another attack.

 

I may start breaking them in half, or dropping it altogether and sticking with the aspirin.

 

I am tired of being coerced into taking all of this garbage and only prescribed it using fear on me. Why not show papers to the patients about how great it is, some peer reviews, etc, they can take home and read to reassure us instead?

 

No, they just have the "I am the doc" attitude, so do as I say.

 

Anyone else experiencing similar issues?

 

I have a funny feeling doctors pimp it so much because it's more then $2/pill versus spending only $5 a month if you take aspirin.

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Delphinus

I want to add. If I said to a doctor, why not give me some paperwork or studies to take home and read so I can actually see the benefits, they would probably tell me that was my responsibility to do. But if I actually went out and did it on my own, they would probably say I shouldn't be doing that. They make no sense.

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janice21475

Jason, My husband had a stint in October. 10-4 on the scare tactics. He smokes. Of course the Dr's tell him, 'you have to quit smoking.' But when we asked for proof that cigarette smoking caused the plaque that is plugging up his arteries the Dr. got very hostile and said 100% of his patients were smokers. That was his proof. I would be willing to bet that of that 100% a majority of them are also borderline diabetic have a sedentary lifestyle. I know carbs have clogged my husbands arteries. When first diagnosed and we cut out practically all carbs, his triglycerides dropped significantly. In the last 3 months his carb intake went way back up and so did the Trigs. The amount he smoked remained constant. It is not the smoking. Maybe they don't like smokers breath?

 

They forced that Plavix on him, too. While he was still on it he did some front end work on our pick-up and while prying with a crowbar, it slipped and busted him in the lip. We like to never got the bleeding stopped. Another thing they don't warn you about.

 

I don't think he had any vision problems from it, though. Of course any thing they have given him for cholesterol lowering has caused much muscle pain and they think he is faking that.

 

The stint they put in you, did they tell you the chances of it becoming blocked? I bet not. You can join this Yahoo forum vasculardisease : VDSG and learn quite a bit about Stints & such. It is for Vascular Disease. It is the only one I have been able to find on the whole internet. Activity is currently slow but there is a wealth of back posts to learn from. Plus, by bugging them to post, it is slowly showing signs of life. They certainly need you there to liven them up. Big Grin!!!

 

Sorry you are going through this, it is a tough pill to take. Especially when they treat you like you are a sheep and not an intelligent, thinking person. You are right to feel as you do.

 

Janice

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Delphinus
Jason, My husband had a stint in October. 10-4 on the scare tactics. He smokes. Of course the Dr's tell him, 'you have to quit smoking.' But when we asked for proof that cigarette smoking caused the plaque that is plugging up his arteries the Dr. got very hostile and said 100% of his patients were smokers. That was his proof. I would be willing to bet that of that 100% a majority of them are also borderline diabetic have a sedentary lifestyle. I know carbs have clogged my husbands arteries. When first diagnosed and we cut out practically all carbs, his triglycerides dropped significantly. In the last 3 months his carb intake went way back up and so did the Trigs. The amount he smoked remained constant. It is not the smoking. Maybe they don't like smokers breath?

 

They forced that Plavix on him, too. While he was still on it he did some front end work on our pick-up and while prying with a crowbar, it slipped and busted him in the lip. We like to never got the bleeding stopped. Another thing they don't warn you about.

 

I don't think he had any vision problems from it, though. Of course any thing they have given him for cholesterol lowering has caused much muscle pain and they think he is faking that.

 

The stint they put in you, did they tell you the chances of it becoming blocked? I bet not. You can join this Yahoo forum vasculardisease : VDSG and learn quite a bit about Stints & such. It is for Vascular Disease. It is the only one I have been able to find on the whole internet. Activity is currently slow but there is a wealth of back posts to learn from. Plus, by bugging them to post, it is slowly showing signs of life. They certainly need you there to liven them up. Big Grin!!!

 

Sorry you are going through this, it is a tough pill to take. Especially when they treat you like you are a sheep and not an intelligent, thinking person. You are right to feel as you do.

 

Janice

 

 

Thank you very much for your reply Janice. I was reading about your husband earlier. That is a scary thing to have happen.

 

I will also be checking out the group you mentioned. I become obsessed with learning about anything I am putting into my body, so this is my newest project.

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Patriots62

Jason,

 

First of all, I didn't get to pipe in on your heart attack thread and I truly hope your recover completely. I am worried that I will be riding that same boat some day regardless how well I try to live.

 

I too have been on Plavix for over six months due to hereditary and diabetes concerns. I also had troubles in the beginning with vision but when I complained about it, all the docs said it was because my A1c was coming down so fast (been T2 diagnosed for one year; plavix for seven months of that). But now I'm not so sure....

 

My morning vision sucks.....straight up. Blurry vision in the first 30minutes of waking up, shutter vision, and so on. Shutter vision is when everything appears bleached out to me and my vision is like an old b/w silent film between frames. Doctors really look at me strange when I describe it that way but it is really the only way I can describe it. Like I said, this all last for about 30 mins and then vision is fine. Two doctors (including the optomologist) state it is because the eye ball changes shape during the night with lowered pb and glucose levels. Again, I ain't buying the car just yet.....

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PinkRose
Jason,

 

My morning vision sucks.....straight up. Blurry vision in the first 30minutes of waking up, shutter vision, and so on. Shutter vision is when everything appears bleached out to me and my vision is like an old b/w silent film between frames. Doctors really look at me strange when I describe it that way but it is really the only way I can describe it. Like I said, this all last for about 30 mins and then vision is fine. Two doctors (including the optomologist) state it is because the eye ball changes shape during the night with lowered pb and glucose levels. Again, I ain't buying the car just yet.....

 

I found your description of early morning 'shutter' vision interesting. Do you perhaps have cataracts or macular edema? I have heard of sufferers describing their vision in a similar way to you so am just wondering.

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aiah23
I found your description of early morning 'shutter' vision interesting. Do you perhaps have cataracts or macular edema? I have heard of sufferers describing their vision in a similar way to you so am just wondering.

 

Never ever noticed shutter vision with cataracts, and I had those as a teenager. This sounds like something distinctly different from cataracts. With macular edema, from what I've understood in talking to relatives who have experienced this it doesn't go away; it's not something that just lasts around 30 minutes in the morning, it's pretty debilitating all day or it comes and goes throughout the day.

 

Fawn

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Delphinus
Jason,

 

First of all, I didn't get to pipe in on your heart attack thread and I truly hope your recover completely. I am worried that I will be riding that same boat some day regardless how well I try to live.

 

I too have been on Plavix for over six months due to hereditary and diabetes concerns. I also had troubles in the beginning with vision but when I complained about it, all the docs said it was because my A1c was coming down so fast (been T2 diagnosed for one year; plavix for seven months of that). But now I'm not so sure....

 

My morning vision sucks.....straight up. Blurry vision in the first 30minutes of waking up, shutter vision, and so on. Shutter vision is when everything appears bleached out to me and my vision is like an old b/w silent film between frames. Doctors really look at me strange when I describe it that way but it is really the only way I can describe it. Like I said, this all last for about 30 mins and then vision is fine. Two doctors (including the optomologist) state it is because the eye ball changes shape during the night with lowered pb and glucose levels. Again, I ain't buying the car just yet.....

 

 

I did alot of research. Plavix isn't as great as the docs say. Most people ditch it altogether and go with a regular daily aspirin.

 

When you first went on it, was your vision bad for a long time(Like days/weeks) then eventually corrected itself? And now you just have the bad vision when you wake? Mine is worse when I wake as well.

 

I am hoping this is temporary.

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Delphinus
Never ever noticed shutter vision with cataracts, and I had those as a teenager. This sounds like something distinctly different from cataracts. With macular edema, from what I've understood in talking to relatives who have experienced this it doesn't go away; it's not something that just lasts around 30 minutes in the morning, it's pretty debilitating all day or it comes and goes throughout the day.

 

Fawn

 

I thought I may have cataracts. But it was all of a sudden. It's very frustrating.

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aiah23
I thought I may have cataracts. But it was all of a sudden. It's very frustrating.

 

Mine were pretty sudden too Jason (within a period of 3-5 months). It was tough finding out I couldn't get a driver's license or have accurate depth perception until I got surgery (I was on the tennis team and had high ambitions for that sport back then). It just seemed like this super constant haze or film over everything. I couldn't see really well at all. Surgery, albeit botched in my R eye, gave me much better vision but I was henceforth far-sighted so I got used to wearing reading glasses and eventually no-line bifocals. I had to have quite a few follow up laser surgeries after the initial ones and the surgical procedure overall has changed for the better on cataracts. An ophthamologist would be able to tell you if you do have cataracts, etc during your routine annual eye exam. I got high eye pressure in my R eye as a result of that botched surgery so I was taking eye drops for a while that they routinely prescribe to people with glaucoma. Had to stop before trying to conceive though.

 

Fawn

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MCS

After my quad by-pass they had me on, Cordorone, Plavix, Asprin, Statin, and a Beta Blocker. I was almost blinded by the mix of meds. I attributed the white out to the cordorone and didn't even consider the Plavix. After several weeks I told the doc, either take me off these drugs or I take my self off the drugs. He reluctantly told me to ween off the Plavix, cordorone, I took myself of the beta blockers and the statins.

 

When Dxed my eyes were blurry and very hard to see even with my glasses. After I gained control of my BG my eyesight went into a superman phase, I could see everything even with out my glasses and I have worn glasses since I was 5 yrs old. I got a new pair of glasses just before my heart surgery ($450), after the surgery I couldn't wait to get them I made my wife take me the eye doc the day after I got back from the hospitol. Long story short, my new glasses didn't work, my old glasses didn't work, my eyes degraded tremendously from that point on.

 

Jason as a side note, I went thru a tremendous emotional period after my surgery, I would cry at commercials, get mad at everything. I felt like a teenage girl going thru puberty and I raised two of them.

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Patriots62

Jason and everyone,

 

The shutter vision I experience is not related to cataracts; been to the eye ball docs (several) too many times for them to miss that. In fact my vision, as far as my glasses are concerned, have improved dramatically once I got my A1c under control. Like I said, it only occurs upon waking and last only for 30 mins. I also see that the "severity" of it IS based on my bedtime/waking BG levels so logically it is somehow still related to my BG control levels. I do feel it is more prominent or worse when I'm below 70s in the morning. Still doing the Mulder thing to "find the truth"....

 

I would LOVE to drop Plavix due to many other reasons and concerns, but alas, I'm severely allergic to Aspirin.....I'm stuck being a Tylenol punk.

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Delphinus
After my quad by-pass they had me on, Cordorone, Plavix, Asprin, Statin, and a Beta Blocker. I was almost blinded by the mix of meds. I attributed the white out to the cordorone and didn't even consider the Plavix. After several weeks I told the doc, either take me off these drugs or I take my self off the drugs. He reluctantly told me to ween off the Plavix, cordorone, I took myself of the beta blockers and the statins.

 

When Dxed my eyes were blurry and very hard to see even with my glasses. After I gained control of my BG my eyesight went into a superman phase, I could see everything even with out my glasses and I have worn glasses since I was 5 yrs old. I got a new pair of glasses just before my heart surgery ($450), after the surgery I couldn't wait to get them I made my wife take me the eye doc the day after I got back from the hospitol. Long story short, my new glasses didn't work, my old glasses didn't work, my eyes degraded tremendously from that point on.

 

Jason as a side note, I went thru a tremendous emotional period after my surgery, I would cry at commercials, get mad at everything. I felt like a teenage girl going thru puberty and I raised two of them.

 

As bad as the meds affected you, I am so glad you made this post. It's very encouraging for me to read that this will indeed pass. My vision is normally excellent... I loved your Superman anaology. Haha... Epic.

 

Cry during commercials? Pfft... Yer such a girl. Tee hee. :T

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Delphinus
oh look....steelers and pats directly next to each other on this thread......NFL AFC powerhouses! :)

 

Great observation. :D

 

I may get my doc to wean me off Plavix as well, or I will. It's what I was thinking anyway. I won't just run into that tho. I'll discuss it with my doc first.

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Patriots62

Weaning off meds has been my goal since being diagnosed. I have reduced Actos to 15mg x1 daily and Glimeperide to 1x daily. And the docs agree with me on these! Battles won; me 1 - them 0. That is until I talk about the Plavix and Lisenopril. All three of my docs are adamant on those. Battles won; me 1 - them 1. Dang it--its a tie! GRRRRRR

 

The thing that makes me go hmmmm is I NEVER had high bp (all my life below 110/70), never had kidney problems and still don't. But yet they say that I need the Plavix because of diabetes and because there is a mild trend of heart disease on my father's side. I say mild as two of five siblings in his family died of heart disease (1 heart attack, 1 congestive disorder). The Lisinopril is 'posed to prevent road wear and tear on the kidneys for being diabetic. Yet all tests show my kidney functions are just fine. But both medicines combined are typical pb reducers; that is why I strongly feel (and have proven) that my pb is simply REAL low in the morning. Of course that is why we have coffee! No joke, my average bp on waking is 100/60 and a few times 90/50 range. I would love to connect the dots to my "shutter vision" to lowered bp but ....... I simply cannot see well enough in the wee hrs of the morning to prove it.

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Delphinus
After my quad by-pass they had me on, Cordorone, Plavix, Asprin, Statin, and a Beta Blocker. I was almost blinded by the mix of meds. I attributed the white out to the cordorone and didn't even consider the Plavix. After several weeks I told the doc, either take me off these drugs or I take my self off the drugs. He reluctantly told me to ween off the Plavix, cordorone, I took myself of the beta blockers and the statins.

 

When Dxed my eyes were blurry and very hard to see even with my glasses. After I gained control of my BG my eyesight went into a superman phase, I could see everything even with out my glasses and I have worn glasses since I was 5 yrs old. I got a new pair of glasses just before my heart surgery ($450), after the surgery I couldn't wait to get them I made my wife take me the eye doc the day after I got back from the hospitol. Long story short, my new glasses didn't work, my old glasses didn't work, my eyes degraded tremendously from that point on.

 

Jason as a side note, I went thru a tremendous emotional period after my surgery, I would cry at commercials, get mad at everything. I felt like a teenage girl going thru puberty and I raised two of them.

 

Another question for you. Did the messed up vision come right away? I didn't start to experience this until about five days after going on the meds. I guess it takes a while for it to really affect your system eh?

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Delphinus
Weaning off meds has been my goal since being diagnosed. I have reduced Actos to 15mg x1 daily and Glimeperide to 1x daily. And the docs agree with me on these! Battles won; me 1 - them 0. That is until I talk about the Plavix and Lisenopril. All three of my docs are adamant on those. Battles won; me 1 - them 1. Dang it--its a tie! GRRRRRR

 

The thing that makes me go hmmmm is I NEVER had high bp (all my life below 110/70), never had kidney problems and still don't. But yet they say that I need the Plavix because of diabetes and because there is a mild trend of heart disease on my father's side. I say mild as two of five siblings in his family died of heart disease (1 heart attack, 1 congestive disorder). The Lisinopril is 'posed to prevent road wear and tear on the kidneys for being diabetic. Yet all tests show my kidney functions are just fine. But both medicines combined are typical pb reducers; that is why I strongly feel (and have proven) that my pb is simply REAL low in the morning. Of course that is why we have coffee! No joke, my average bp on waking is 100/60 and a few times 90/50 range. I would love to connect the dots to my "shutter vision" to lowered bp but ....... I simply cannot see well enough in the wee hrs of the morning to prove it.

 

I never had high BP either. Now and again it was slightly elevated, but never enough to warrant meds. I asked the doc if I need to take all of this sh1t for long, and she said forever. I went on about streamlining it with an even better diet and more exercise and she gave me the usual c rap about that won't be enough, etc.

 

She knows I am stuboorn, but smart about it, and I won't stay on anything longer then I have to. Sound stupid? Maybe, but my quality of life has deteriorated so much it isn't worth it. Headaches(I rarely get headaches), blurred vision, nausea. Name it. And the dreams, wow... I thought the original Jason has some weird dreams, this new Jason, well, even I think it's out there. Hah...

 

If I didn't know the keyboard so well, and didn't have my face mashed into the monitor to read, I wouldn't be able to come here or really surf.

 

I was considering installing Dragon Naturally Speaking just in case this gets worse. I had my system voice activated before just as a novelty, now I may need it.

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PinkRose
Weaning off meds has been my goal since being diagnosed. I have reduced Actos to 15mg x1 daily and Glimeperide to 1x daily. And the docs agree with me on these! Battles won; me 1 - them 0. That is until I talk about the Plavix and Lisenopril. All three of my docs are adamant on those. Battles won; me 1 - them 1. Dang it--its a tie! GRRRRRR

 

The thing that makes me go hmmmm is I NEVER had high bp (all my life below 110/70), never had kidney problems and still don't. But yet they say that I need the Plavix because of diabetes and because there is a mild trend of heart disease on my father's side. I say mild as two of five siblings in his family died of heart disease (1 heart attack, 1 congestive disorder). The Lisinopril is 'posed to prevent road wear and tear on the kidneys for being diabetic. Yet all tests show my kidney functions are just fine. But both medicines combined are typical pb reducers; that is why I strongly feel (and have proven) that my pb is simply REAL low in the morning. Of course that is why we have coffee! No joke, my average bp on waking is 100/60 and a few times 90/50 range. I would love to connect the dots to my "shutter vision" to lowered bp but ....... I simply cannot see well enough in the wee hrs of the morning to prove it.

 

90/50 is definitely LOW BP. Numbers slightly above that, 100/60, is also LOW BP. I have actually heard that BP that is too low is also a threat to heart health but I don't know how true that is. I've been that low as a reaction to BP meds that I've been put on & my nephrologist definitely was concerned about me going low & reduced my BP med dosage in response.

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janice21475

Jason, Have you told your Dr of the vision loss in STRONG ENOUGH WORDS? I am very concerned for you. Don't let them bully you into blindness. If you are considering adding a speaking program to your PC, it is time to get a 2nd opinion. There may be some other problem causing this eyesight issue. Go to an eye Dr. Maybe a heart attack Dr is ignorant of eye issues?? They are pretty specialized now days. Keep us posted.

 

Janice

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Patriots62

Jason, I echo Janice's view. Have you seen optometrist since the heart attack? I am wondering if perhaps the heart attack didn't cause occular damage that can be corrected. I am by far absolutely no expert but I would be screaming now if I was in your case.

 

And PinkRose--I know!!!! (imitating Craig Ferguson) Let's just say some funky and absolutely unexplainable reason I always end up with more Lisinopril and Plavix left over on my quarterly refill. Huh, wonder how that happens.

 

And the absolutely hillarious response when discussing low bp is "the lower the better". Really doc? I mean really???!!! I kinda think no bp is too low but hey, that is my opinion. For some strange reason, doc's tend to cringe when we get into that kind of discussion with me. I wonder if it is my freaky shutter vision that makes them do that? Or is it the condescending or questioning tone in my voice? Nooooo, couldn't be!

 

Jason, speak out and demand a FULL optometry exam. I did and got several specialists to check my shutter vision but I don't want you have to go through all that with your plate full enough as it is buddy.

 

And btw, see that guy across the Bay of Fundy waving at ya??? Yea, the fool on the coast of silly Maine. Ehyup, that is me. Take care and get well!!!!

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Delphinus

Thank you Janice and Doug. I will make an appointment right now.

 

EDIT:

 

Called just now.

 

I have an appointment next week. Thursday. The eye doctor is also my old family doctor. So I am sure he can address some other concerns I have as well. If it seems to be getting worse, I will see someone sooner. Right now it seems to be the same all the time.

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GrammaBear

Jason, I didn't get a chance to post to your heart attack thread because my computer was down. Just want to let you know I'm sending positive thoughts your way and hope your appointment with the eye doctor goes well. Be strong because we all enjoy your contributions to this forum :)

 

GrammaBear

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janice21475

Jason, Unless you have dramatized the loss of vision, I believe waiting until next Thursday is too long. You could have bleeding inside you eyes as a result of the heart attack. Please, see (what a word to use, eh?) someone sooner. At least install that program on your computer to read the screens to you.

 

I have been thinking about this on and off all afternoon and getting more uneasy. Better to overreact than to act too late. You only have one pair of eyes.

Janice

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