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WantHealth

DO NOT WANT A BIG DEBATE: but wondering why carbohydrates cause such strong emotions?

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WantHealth

I read the previous thread "wondering about low-carbing" which is now closed with fascination.

 

This week, I had a conversation with my hair stylist that turned a little bit ugly. She was horrified that I wasn't eating carbohydrates. Especially fruit. She felt that what I am eating is going to kill me....like tomorrow.

 

I don't understand why the discussion of carbohydrates is so emotionally charged?

For the past 30 years we have been forced (brainwashed) to think fat and meat will be the absolute death of us, akin to smoking cigarettes, but I NEVER got flack for eating a low-fat diet. Nobody ever seemed emotional or upset or irritated by a low-fat diet. I'm just so perplexed as to why a low-carb diet seems to be an affront to our society -- somehow a low-carb diet really pisses people off -- makes them feel insulted or that we are completely batsh*t crazy for removing carbs from our lives.

 

I HOPE that with time and more research this sort of crazed carb obsession will lessen but I'm not so sure. I really don't see mainstream society accepting the fact that even Whole Grains and Fruit aren't a great thing for diabetics (let alone the fact that processed grain and high fructose corn syrup is not a good thing for anyone).

 

I just don't understand why this is a such an emotionally charged subject. It oftentimes seems as bad as discussing religion or politics for goshsakes. I was a vegetarian in my 20's and nobody ever gave me as much "attitude" as I've received for low-carbing.

 

This is not meant as a discussion of whether low-carbing is good or bad AT ALL.

 

I only mean to ask why on earth it is so emotionally charged?

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Bountyman

I would imagine, as it is with all subjects that get polarized...it is ignorance and the chance to express that ignorance. It seems the higher the intellectual order...the more there is to argue about. I've tried on several occasions to get my point across to my neighbor's dog. He seems very apathetic about the conversation until I get close...then he bites me. Conversation over!

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jwags

I have stopped fighting with people. After 4 years on this diet my doctor finally thinks it is a good thing. My HbA1c is 5.3, my bgs are always under 100 and my weight is back where it was in the 1960's. I feel great and look great for someone who just turned 60. I think in the West we are raised on carbs and people can't imagine life limiting them. I still eat some carbs like sprouted grain bread but eat no fruit or other grains . I get most of my carbs from veggies. I consider myself healthy.

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Todd G.

A quote to elevate the board:

 

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

 

Dresden James

 

I have never made a more "on point" post in my entire life. I should quit now. :)

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WantHealth
A quote to elevate the board:

 

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

 

Dresden James

 

I have never made a more "on point" post in my entire life. I should quit now. :)

 

I LOVE THIS!!!

 

I pretty much said as much to my hairstylist today (which didn't win me any points). I mentioned how we recently thought the earth was flat, believed in blood-letting and leeches and so on.

 

Now, thanks to you, I have a bonafide quote to back up my thoughts. Not that I'll use it....well...maybe I will :-)

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shyam

Todd has hit the nail on the head. But IMHO the change will not take as much time as we think. I'd say 10 years or so.

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samorgan

From what I've seen, I think that is accurate. I keep running into all kinds of people at work and elsewhere who are becoming aware of these issues. I met a guy (non-diabetic) in our company gym who started raving about low-carb eating and how much energy he had - so much all of a sudden it almost scared him and sometimes he couldn't even sleep at night (in a good way). He was completely hooked after a few weeks and didn't even need to do it to control BG or anything like that.

 

I don't even get funny looks any more when I order a hamburger at our company cafeteria without bun or have two or three pats of butter on my tray when the only food is a chicken-vegetable curry (I have to add the butter to make it "balanced" for my metabolism). Once the salad guy thought he had put too much cheese on my salad and I said, "No, don't worry, I'm on a high-fat diet." He replied, "Really? So am I. I'm hypoglycemic."

 

Most are quiet, but it seems there are more people out there aware of these issues than it would first appear. Even in the medical and research community, the door is finally beginning to crack open a bit. Some vested interests may resist because it really threatens a HUGE amount of current and potential profit, but hopefully real interest in peoples' health will win out eventually. This should be helped by countries with single-payer medical care or something like it such as England when they realize the colossal bill they would be facing and how much they could save with better knowledge and recommendations.

 

 

 

Todd has hit the nail on the head. But IMHO the change will not take as much time as we think. I'd say 10 years or so.

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Daytona

My sister-in-law is getting her nursing degree and is horrified by my diet. Since she's knee deep in "established medical" textbooks saying that saturated fats cause heart disease, salt causes hypertension and that whole grains are good for you, she thinks I am killing myself. It makes her really upset and scared for me... I can't really defend myself since for her to believe that everything they are teaching her in college, at the hospital, by other nurses, etc is wrong would be a big blow in her confidence in what she's doing.

 

The perma-dieters in my life are the most accepting of my diet and anyone close to the health care industry is the most close minded about it. I don't think this will change until the industry as a whole acknowledges that they have been wrong. I'd like to think that will be soon but they've been ignoring mounting evidence since the 70's so who knows?

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DeusXM

I think this thread illustrates exactly why there tends to be such a severe reaction to low-carbing.

 

In any case, we all know that diet causes more fights than anything else you care to mention - people get far more sensitive about people making judgements about their choices of food than anything else. At the small end of the scale it's people asking you if you're eating too much. Then it just builds from that up to vegetarianism and so on.

 

Let's return back to why this thread is a perfect example?

 

It's largely because there is a small but extremely vocal minority for whom it's not enough to say low-carbing works for them. They then go into a lot of quasi-science that inevitably flits over things like the Inuit or what paleolithic peoples ate and the end result is that anyone who thinks that maybe sandwiches and spuds aren't that bad a thing are made to feel like they're backwards or irresponsible or somehow just not quite good enough. Look at the language you're all using. It's as if you're all privy to some great higher truth and gosh darn it the rest of us just haven't quite kept up with you and we all deserve your pity.

 

That's why low-carbing gets such a reaction. Those of us who are perfectly healthy and frankly, been managing more intensive forms of diabetes for decades don't necessarily appreciate the implication that the things we've been doing that somehow have resulted in us being in better shape than a lot of you are actually doing something wrong. I couldn't care less that low-carb works for you and I imagine it's the same for a lot of the silent majority of us who just treat our diets as something else to be dealt with in our lives rather than some prosetylising defining issue. No offence but it's not us bad ol' high-carbers relentlessly posting studies on forums or on our facebook profile and then scoffing at how Big Pharm is conning us all.

 

All of us are perfectly happy that you're low-carbing and you're loving it. Good for you. The problem is some of us here are trying to make the point that a variety of methods are appropriate for managing diabetes, and then you get some overexcitable person raging that one of us dared to post a picture of an easter egg. It's less about the diet guys; it's about the presentation. For every sensible person who's figured out you need less insulin for a steak than a bowl of pasta, there's 20 more who then start going on about unproved supplements or conspiracy theories that leads you to feel like it's not just their steak that's wrapped in tinfoil. Of course, the irony is that it always feels like there's more of the kooks out there - but of course, a conscious strategy of setting up multiple forum accounts will create that perception, won't it?

 

Finally, let's go back to the reason why this thread was posted. Another thread was put on here that asked 'why doesn't everyone low-carb?' Let's leave aside the obvious point that such a question only comes from a heavy degree of self-righteousness. I was one of the people that answered that question. It then turned out by answering that question, I was just throwing myself open to a few cute lectures about why I was wrong. Turns out that the sort of people who ask this question aren't looking for answers; they're just looking for opportunities to push their beliefs on other. And unfortunately it also happens outside of forums, which is why people get cagey.

 

You asked a question why people get emotive about low-carbing. There's an answer for you. Now let's see just how serious you are about 'not having a debate'. $100 says someone will have a hissy fit, tell me why I'm wrong, it all snowballs and the thread gets closed.

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MrsMia
I read the previous thread "wondering about low-carbing" which is now closed with fascination.

 

This week, I had a conversation with my hair stylist that turned a little bit ugly. She was horrified that I wasn't eating carbohydrates. Especially fruit. She felt that what I am eating is going to kill me....like tomorrow.

 

I don't understand why the discussion of carbohydrates is so emotionally charged?

For the past 30 years we have been forced (brainwashed) to think fat and meat will be the absolute death of us, akin to smoking cigarettes, but I NEVER got flack for eating a low-fat diet. Nobody ever seemed emotional or upset or irritated by a low-fat diet. I'm just so perplexed as to why a low-carb diet seems to be an affront to our society -- somehow a low-carb diet really pisses people off -- makes them feel insulted or that we are completely batsh*t crazy for removing carbs from our lives.

 

I HOPE that with time and more research this sort of crazed carb obsession will lessen but I'm not so sure. I really don't see mainstream society accepting the fact that even Whole Grains and Fruit aren't a great thing for diabetics (let alone the fact that processed grain and high fructose corn syrup is not a good thing for anyone).

 

I just don't understand why this is a such an emotionally charged subject. It oftentimes seems as bad as discussing religion or politics for goshsakes. I was a vegetarian in my 20's and nobody ever gave me as much "attitude" as I've received for low-carbing.

 

This is not meant as a discussion of whether low-carbing is good or bad AT ALL.

 

I only mean to ask why on earth it is so emotionally charged?

 

I have my own personal reasons as to why some people tend to go ballistic but let me just say that for those people, the major one has to do with protecting their "sacred cows."

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Todd G.
My sister-in-law is getting her nursing degree and is horrified by my diet. Since she's knee deep in "established medical" textbooks saying that saturated fats cause heart disease, salt causes hypertension and that whole grains are good for you, she thinks I am killing myself. It makes her really upset and scared for me... I can't really defend myself since for her to believe that everything they are teaching her in college, at the hospital, by other nurses, etc is wrong would be a big blow in her confidence in what she's doing.

 

The perma-dieters in my life are the most accepting of my diet and anyone close to the health care industry is the most close minded about it. I don't think this will change until the industry as a whole acknowledges that they have been wrong. I'd like to think that will be soon but they've been ignoring mounting evidence since the 70's so who knows?

 

The bad thing is that if "they" ever do say they were wrong, then it opens the door for the science haters to run rampant with their own version of reality, which may be worse. Where any gap in knowledge is filled with rubbish thinking of every sort, all claiming the "right" to be heard no matter how absurd their theories. Then you start the cycle again with all this new junk that is now entrenched in the collective consciousness.

 

But it will legitimately raise the question thought of WHY the message had been wrong, and maybe that investigation will result in a renewal of some ethical standards as far as research is concerned. But I doubt it. The genie is out of the bottle and we're on our own as far as informational literacy is concerned. The truth is out there, but you'll have to dig through a bunch of propaganda to find it. And then be smart enough to know it when you see it. Of course, teaching critical thinking skills is not part of the curriculum these days at most schools, so the cycle repeats.

 

If you want to see a worse case scenario, rent the movie Soylent Green. Or stick around for 50 years.

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clebo

Love that Sig..Deus. Back to the thread !! I do 110 -125 carbs a day. Generally I consider myself a low carber (in numbers only)if you compare me to the ADA standards for Diabetic Daily carb consumption.I think we are All low carbers in that sense of the definition.

 

In technical terms,it starts getting sticky and heated around here when you start talking what "kind" of carbs. I eat from "All" food groups...am I still a low carber.? I think that's where the difference, lies...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Do low carbers eat from ALL food groups...or just some. If it's All food groups, I'm a low carber, if it's restricted food groups, I'm not.

 

Then the battle gets worse over the "Fat" issue. If it's Fat as the main stay and leading percentage of a low-carbers food intake, than I'm not a low-carber. I eat Fat but I don't make it the majority of my daily food ingestion and I won't go out of way to eat it.

 

Also when I talk about eating donuts, cereal, pie, cookies, and other"forbidden" foods(don't even believe in the forbidden food list) I'm sure folks shake their heads.I do not consume these items everyday. I'm talking occasional indulence.Some being the real deal item and other Diabetic friendly recipes. I know you all just shake your heads....

 

It's just we all feel the need to defend our Lifestyle and it's a shame. You or I don't have to defend the choice that is ours and only ours to make. Their are many choice(options) in Diabetes, We all share those options with each other everyday, and I still wish we didn't have to defend why we make those choices. It's no body's business but you're own. Your Life, Your Body. Your Choice. But we're in the real world and that's a totally different animal... Life is Good. Clebo

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notme

I think it would be truly wonderful if there was less judgement and more discussion on the forum. I just finished another thread where someone is being judged about what they are doing rather than answering the question that was asked.

 

Nobody knows 100% that they are right. It is a bit like religion. We have our beliefs and we have backup to our beliefs, but the proof is in the pudding (low carb of course).

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MrsMia
Love that Sig..Deus. Back to the thread !! I do 110 -125 carbs a day. Generally I consider myself a low carber (in numbers only)if you compare me to the ADA standards for Diabetic Daily carb consumption.I think we are All low carbers in that sense of the definition.

 

Exactly, Clebo. Most of us do without our even realizing it. Compared to the standard american western diet the carbs we (well, most of us diabetics)eat are low.

 

In technical terms,it starts getting sticky and heated around here when you start talking what "kind" of carbs. I eat from "All" food groups...am I still a low carber.? I think that's where the difference, lies...

 

I would say you are right to a degree. Kinds of carbs do matter. That is why we use our meters to check. Most people will find out if they can tolerate (bg wise) certain foods and in what quantities. So yes, someone may be able to eat a quarter cup of pasta (a quarter cup has fewer carbs than a full cup or a half cup) and someone else more and someone else can't and even further, someone else who doesn't care enough about having that food so why should they bother?

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Do low carbers eat from ALL food groups...or just some.

 

That is a totally subjective and individual answer. Some do, some don't.

 

If it's All food groups, I'm a low carber, if it's restricted food groups, I'm not.

 

Some people have to restrict certain food groups out of necessity. Some people cannot tolerate wheat or other grains. Some cannot tolerate dairy. Some are allergic to different foods. I'm not sure how you are tying eating all food groups to whether you are or are not a low carber though.

 

Then the battle gets worse over the "Fat" issue. If it's Fat as the main stay and leading percentage of a low-carbers food intake, than I'm not a low-carber. I eat Fat but I don't make it the majority of my daily food ingestion and I won't go out of way to eat it.

 

Again, that is a personal choice that each individual must make for themselves.

 

Also when I talk about eating donuts, cereal, pie, cookies, and other"forbidden" foods(don't even believe in the forbidden food list) I'm sure folks shake their heads.I do not consume these items everyday. I'm talking occasional indulence.Some being the real deal item and other Diabetic friendly recipes. I know you all just shake your heads....

 

The only people that I truly shake my head at is my own family's poor choices, Clebo. I do have a personal and vested interest there. :) If people I don't really know want to choose whatever foods that is up to them. They're all old enough to have earned that right. And the way I see it is we all have our own consequences to pay for our choices. So the good thing is, I don't have to pay the consequences for other people's choices.

 

It's just we all feel the need to defend our Lifestyle and it's a shame. You or I don't have to defend the choice that is ours and only ours to make. Their are many choice(options) in Diabetes, We all share those options with each other everyday, and I still wish we didn't have to defend why we make those choices. It's no body's business but you're own. Your Life, Your Body. Your Choice. But we're in the real world and that's a totally different animal... Life is Good. Clebo

 

Life IS good, Clebo. That is why I choose the way I do for myself. I don't want to end up like the ancient Egyptians. ;) And contrary to what some might believe, I really don't care what they or anybody chooses to eat. Only my own decisions have consequences for me. :)

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clebo

When they're wrong... Who's to say who is right and who is wrong.Can't we all be right if whatvever we're doing is working for us.This is not about right or wrong, it's about finding what works for you in controling your Diabetes. Why does it bother any of us what the other guy/gal does.

 

As far as any thread goes. If someone starts a thread. I read and respond, if I'm interested and have something to say . I thought that's what we were encouraged to do. Yes. we definitely keep going back to some of the same old discussions(we can't help ourselves -we're creatures of habit).

 

For me personally, I choose to read these threads because they help keep my brain active by letting me process through all the ideas and opinions and views that flow in the responses. I learn a lot-whatever the topic is. I don't know many threads that don't turn into discussion/debate.It's all good.

 

There's no need to judge anyone else.We are are only responsible for what we put in our own mouths and live with those actions, regardless...

 

I will close by saying that , I think we All need to grow some more "Hair"...Oops, sorry that was Bountyman's thread. Life is Good...Clebo

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MrsMia
When they're wrong... Who's to say who is right and who is wrong.Can't we all be right if whatvever we're doing is working for us.This is not about right or wrong, it's about finding what works for you in controling your Diabetes. Why does it bother any of us what the other guy/gal does.

 

I must be missing something. Of course it's about finding what works for "you" in controlling your diabetes. But many people who come to the forums don't know that process yet (usually the newly diagnosed) or have been away for a while from managing their BG's. There is nothing wrong with offering advice about diet or exercise, or meds, or anything else if someone asks for help in how to lower their bg's. Especially when they already are taking medicines and/or insulin.

 

There's no need to judge anyone else.We are are only responsible for what we put in our own mouths and live with those actions, regardless...

 

I agree, Clebo. But who is doing judging? I have not seen that.

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samorgan

I just noticed that there are ground rules for this particular thread. I don't know if it was recently moved to the top or if it was always there and I didn't notice. I think everyone should read it:

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

Guide lines to the Low-carb lifestlye forum

 

The low carb lifestyle forum is for discussion on following a reduced carbohydrate lifestyle. The use of this forum is for any one following a reduced carbohydrate diet or are interested in learning more about a reduced carbohydrate lifestyle.

 

If you do not follow a low carb lifestyle and would like to participate in this forum then we ask you to please be respectful of people who do follow a low carb lifestyle. Ridiculing, criticizing, degrading or any other kind of harshness is not tolerated. These posts will be deleted.

 

This forum was added in part to help maintain the forums and keep them more organize. Low carb dieting is a form of controlling diabetes for many people just as pumping insulin which has it's own forum.

Like

Tony

Administrator of Diabetesforums.com

 

----------------------------------------------

 

If I'm understanding this correctly, it says this particular thread is RESERVED exclusively for the following:

 

1) Those practicing a low-carb lifestyle, and

2) Those sincerely interested in learning more about it - but with conditions

 

The second category is allowed but only with certain conditions, such as:

 

"please be respectful of people who do follow a low carb lifestyle. Ridiculing, criticizing, degrading or any other kind of harshness is not tolerated."

 

In short, if you wish to argue or dispute about the LC lifestyle, this is not the place for that and it is not allowed here.

 

I just re-read the entire thread and it seems completely clear exactly where the problem started, how and by whom. If I'm understanding the above rules correctly, this thread was instituted precisely to stop this kind of arguing by giving a "safe" place to those adhering to a low-carb lifestyle to discuss their issues without those arguments being allowed to start.

 

Trying to understand negative emotional reactions encountered when discussing this life style is certainly one of the issues the LC/HF community faces, part of our experience and something we need to discuss with each other if for no other reason to help each other learn how to present what we know in a better way to minimize these reactions and increase harmony and understanding.

 

Again, as I understand the above text, the mechanism is placing certain limitations on those who are participating because they "are interested in learning more about a reduced carbohydrate lifestyle", but who are not actively practicing this method themselves. Does anyone doubt that some participated who didn't fit in either of these categories?

 

Is it just me or was original plan from 2002 not adhered to in this case?

 

It would be equally inappropriate if I went to the "Pumpers" forum and started ranting about how diabetes can be controlled in "various ways", not just insulin pumps. I've never visited the "Pumpers" forum because I don't belong there. If I did read there, it would be highly unlikely I would ever post anything unless just to ask a question. This reserved "low-carb" forum - and those using it for its intended purpose - deserve the same respect.

 

Always ready to be told I'm wrong, but this is what appears to me.

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Mussakka

In general I think food is a very emotional topic. It relates to some of our most primal urges and is a tremendous source of pleasure and satisfaction for most everyone. I don't think there's a single person out there who doesn't love something good to eat (good as defined by taste and satisfaction, regardless of health implications). Something that fundamental and crucial to our bodies and psyches is bound to generate intense feelings.

 

Add to that what I call "True Believer Syndrome" and you get a lot of debate. I liken the high carb/low carb debate to the Kinsey sexual scale: two polarized ends with most people falling somewhere in the middle.

 

From my perspective, I like to read and learn about what others eat and what works for them while balancing their ideas with my own desires and preferences for food. I don't believe all carbs are the Antichrist, but I do feel many of them are bad seeds. As a coworker of mine says, "Moderation in all things, including moderation." For the most part, I just don't feel diets are worth arguing over. You eat what you eat. Big whoop. The larger question is do you enjoy your diet and feel satisfied and sustained by it? If you can answer that affirmatively, then you're doing fine.

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clebo

When all is said and done and we continue to to discuss/ debate whatever the topic is, we're

all going to continue our different roads(with different choices) on our own personal journey, and rightfully so ...

 

Hopefully from all the information, opinions and knowledge, first hand experience shared here in the Forum... newbies to oldbies can still learn and decide for themselves what options and choices they have available. All options /treatment/meds/insulin/(anything Diabetic related and then some) should be discussed and offered for what it's worth to each individual...Life is Good...Clebo

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clebo

I thought I was a low carber, Can someone tell me if I belong here or not? If you say I don't belong here, I will go away. but I thought I qualified. It begs to ask what is a low carber? Who qualifies to be here.? In my eyes I low carb, but don't HF do I still belong?

I see your point Salim and I also understood why Mia posted here and did Not understand why her thread was closed here.She was in her own "safe " place...If I can't post here(because I'm not considered a low carber, although I thought I was), then where do I Go?(Don't answer that please!!)

 

If I have wrongfully invaded your space and safe place, I am sorry and will go somewhere else..My apologies..I was answering the thread with my response, and I didn't read the rules beforehand. I also noted(when rereading your post you did mention LC/HF...I thought it was just a low carb forum(regardless how much fat you consume), but when HF came up, then, that eliminated me. ...I am in the wrong place. I won't post here anymore and I'm sorry Folks... You are right... Life is Good..Clebo

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SusanMatt
$100 says someone will have a hissy fit, tell me why I'm wrong, it all snowballs and the thread gets closed.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm hoping for this $100. :)

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notme

You are not 100% wrong, samorgan. If you went to the pumpers forum and started "ridiculing" someone for not controlling their diabetes with injection then you would be asked to refrain. However, if you went to the pumpers forum and asked why people prefer the pump or said that you were not using a pump because you are finding that injections worked better for you, then you are in the right forum and a discussion on the subject should be allowed in that forum.

 

In the low carb forum, it is a place to discuss the pro's and con's of a low carb life choice without ridicule. It isn't just a place for people who have adopted this lifestyle, but a place to discuss both sides of the issue. The problems start when "ridicule", "judgement" and arguments ensue.

 

Diabetes Forums is a place to discuss, support and befriend others that are in the same situation. We are not a debate forum nor are we a forum of people who outshout people who have questions. We post new things that we discover and post articles that we come across that we think are worthy of posting. Lets keep it that way. Constantly finding sources that support your own theory becomes old after one or two. Then we need to let others have a voice and post what they believe in a friendly and supportive manner. What we don't need is a group of people from any side of a lifestyle choice pouncing on every thread and making posters feel like they are uneducated or have not yet found the "real truth" in caring for their diabetes. We are a diverse group of people struggling with the same (or almost the same) problem. There will be many different conclusions to this problem. One group or person will not be right.

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samorgan

I disagree. That may be true for some of us, i.e., that no matter what we hear we will continue doing what we are doing. But, it is not true for me and for many others, particularly the newly diagnosed or those who only recently began to take control seriously. That is why it is extremely important that they get to hear all different experiences, findings, results, theories, etc.

 

I have personally seen very many people take a radical change of direction and with great success after reading some of the less "orthodox" ideas on forums like this one. Information is critical. What we get from medical professionals is far from comprehensive (to put it very charitably).

 

I am personally very grateful to certain outspoken individuals on other forums who helped me understand the information which has given me the outstanding success I am enjoying. Sadly, most of them were subsequently "banned for life" from their respective forums.

 

I'm not set in my ways. I read a lot. I used to consider exercise to be a vital part of my BG control regimen. I no longer believe that after reading about methyl glyoxate and the direct relationship of glucose throughput (all the way to the cells) to beta cell death. Pushing glucose into reluctant cells via exercise now appears to me to be a negative not a positive in spite of meter readings. For me, "eat to your meter" failed here. I still appreciate exercise for its many other benefits but will not do it unless I'm confident I'm in ketosis to avoid more MG production which according to recent scientific discoveries could directly cause increased progression of the disease. Another scientific finding could send me in another direction. Who knows?

 

I said it once and I'll say it again. If indeed there are two "sides" here there is only one side who wishes for the other to stop saying what they are saying. It is not mutual. There is no threat here or on any other forum I have seen to endless threads of YMMV, ask your doctor, eat to your meter, etc. It is only ideas, practices and especially success stories which go against the "common" wisdom and what we are being told by medical professionals that elicits this extreme reaction and - in many, many cases - bannings and purges until it is finally completely suppressed.

 

I would hope that no matter how much you may disagree with a particular idea that none of you would wish that for this forum. There are very few left which still allow "dissenting" opinion. This is a precious resource. DF is the best! You know the concept of freedom of speech? Even the speech that you really dislike. I hate to think what my own condition would be if those brave individuals who helped me so much had been banned before I got a chance to learn from them!

 

 

 

When all is said and done and we continue to to discuss/ debate whatever the topic is, we're

all going to continue our different roads(with different choices) on our own personal journey, and rightfully so ...

 

Hopefully from all the information, opinions and knowledge, first hand experience shared here in the Forum... newbies to oldbies can still learn and decide for themselves what options and choices they have available. All options /treatment/meds/insulin/(anything Diabetic related and then some) should be discussed and offered for what it's worth to each individual...Life is Good...Clebo

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