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NickP

A Must See Presentation on Low Carb High Fat Diet!!!!

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NickP

Recently, a large number of Paleo/Low Carb leaders and followers met and had presentations at the Ancestral Health Symposium in Los Angeles. One of the key speeches was delivered by Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, where he describes causes of obesity and the diet revolution in Sweden, where he practices medicine.

 

This presentation is about 50 minutes long....but it is free and very eye opening. In case you haven't seen it, the HFLC movement is taking Sweden by storm! They are turning the tide in Sweden and making a difference.

 

Please watch this presentation and let me know what you think!

 

!

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Daytona

Yay! I have been waiting for the videos to be posted WITH the slides and it looks like some are finally up. Thanks for the link!

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DeusXM

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A CRITICISM OF LOW-CARBING IN GENERAL

 

I think you may have fallen for a man with a talent for self-promotion.

 

From what I've read, low-carbing is not taking off in a big way in Sweden. In fact, the sole references I've really found to any kind of low-carbing are either a)from DietDoctor, not exactly a neutral source, b)a newspaper article from about two years ago saying there was a bit of a fad for low-carbing (something that happened in many countries) and c)the usual low-carb bloggy tinfoil hat brigade.

 

I'm not disputing a low-carb diet can have value but I think everyone is reading far too much into decisions made by the Swedish health governing authorities - contrary to popular opinion, Swedish medical authorities have never endorsed low-carbing but simply acknowledged it could play a role in treating certain conditions. Granted, this is perhaps further than most other medical authorities but I think this throw-away sentence in a list of guidelines is being overplayed.

 

Look, I know that low-carbing has worked well for many people here. But why is there this persistent need to treat dietary advice like a team sport? Why do all these supposedly influential blogs talk about 'winning the Battle of Sweden'? Or 'turning the tide'? Or 'leading a diet revolution'? Or even having 'leaders of the movement'? Why are there all these bloggers out there organising 'low-carb cruises' or selling t-shirts that allow the wearing to loudly proclaim they low-carb? And who is buying this stuff? And why on earth are they buying it? People are talking about lobbying at a grassroots level. Since when did what you eat turn into some sort of combination of Star Wars, sports, Church and presidential elections?

 

Once again, yes, low-carbing does work for some people but I really do wonder about some of the people on it. There does seem to a strange subset that seem to get something far more than dietary advice out of it, it's almost like they're more interested in 'belonging' to something. And that's the benign side of it, what about the bloggers who are raking it in from those needy people?

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raffi

Look, I know that low-carbing has worked well for many people here. But why is there this persistent need to treat dietary advice like a team sport? Why do all these supposedly influential blogs talk about 'winning the Battle of Sweden'? Or 'turning the tide'? Or 'leading a diet revolution'? Or even having 'leaders of the movement'?

 

I'm guessing it's because of the persistent "fat is bad" message we've heard for so many years. This is one way to overcome (in our own minds) that huge inertia that makes even trying LC/HF difficult for many.

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DeusXM

I know but there's no need to turn to misinformation. For instance, this Dr. Eenfeldt made a big fuss on his English blog about a supposed butter shortage in Sweden, attributed to winning the LCHF battle. Oddly enough, he didn't report it on his Swedish blog. And he also omitted rather key information that Sweden traditionally experiences a dairy shortage in winter. Granted, this year's shortage is a couple of months early. But then again, apparently Sweden's dairy industry is shrinking by about 7% each year anyway as farmers leave the business, while the population growth in Sweden is the highest it's been for 20 years.

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Sgtmaj

I normally don't get involved in these types of conversations because it serves no purpose except to rile some emotions, but I agree with DeusXM. I did not watch the presentation and I am not a low carber. I prefer to control my D thru a basal and bolus of insulin and exercise. When I asked a question a, few weeks ago about adjusting my bolus, the low carbers came out in force and condemned my eating habits, that sounds worse than what it actually was. There are some low carbers out there, not many, who proclaim they eat less than 30 carbs a day and wear it like a badge of honor. If it works for you and you are happy with your menu, go for it. I prefer to use medication and have, what I consider a more normal lifestyle. Ok, there I said it. I put my flak jacket on - I'm ready -let me have it.

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xMenace

I listened to it, but I thought it was all rhetoric -- unproveable either way. I like real facts over opinion any day.

 

I prefer to use medication and have, what I consider a more normal lifestyle. Ok, there I said it. I put my flak jacket on - I'm ready -let me have it.

 

Sir, you can take off that jacket; I only give you choices. If you have hypoglycemia issues, low carbing can help - the law of small numbers. If you need to lose weight, low carbing can help. I also believe low carbing can help prevent many western diseases and stave off diabetes complications. If I had absolute proof, my words would be stronger, but I hope I would not attack you. I will ask you to consider what normal means. Does normal mean 1 million Americans have to have heart attacks each year? Does normal mean we should have 33% obesity rates? Does normal mean a 50% chance of developing cancer? 15,000 years ago normal to American immigrants was following and hunting reindeer herds, not eating pasta and buscuits. I believe our [general population] understanding of healthy nutrition is way off base. I tend to write strong words to shake up readers' ideas of normality, their understanding of what healthy nutrition really is, but I won't lose sleep if you do what you feel is best. That's actually our goal - do what we feel is best, not anybody else's, right or wrong, including our health care teams'.

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Sgtmaj

Please disreguard my previous post. I shouldn't be in this forum. I can't figure out how to delete it. This is a place for people who believe or need a lowcarb lifestyle, not for people like me. I shouldn't be running my mouith in this forum. Again I apologize to any I offended.

 

Rick

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raffi

I was not trying to defend the turning to misinformation, just maybe explain it. It's a human nature sort of thing where the underdog turns to any support they see. I know I have to try hard to evaluate information that agrees with my preconceived notions.

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jenet

Sgtmaj,

 

If you are a person with diabetes or someone who loves someone with diabetes, then you absolutely need to be here. I am not a "less than 30 carbs/day" low carber. Some people here are. Most threads in all the individual forums range far beyond the original question or post. I find them all inspirational, even if only because it tells me I am not alone, and if I keep searching and trying new things, I will continue to improve in how to manage my diabetes better.

 

Regardless of our differences, we can all come together to support each other over the many other issues of living with diabetes, and rejoice in our collective successes. This is a family; we have our tiffs. But still, we come and go as we need to find moral support, to ask for advice from fellow PWDs and to celebrate the daily wins. Not all advice suits every member, but there just might be that one time you do manage to help someone else, or one other person here has the answer to an odd challenge you are facing.

 

The best statement I read, I found here on this site: "Your mileage may vary." I put it in my signature to remind me that we each have to make our own decisions on what may work best for us. I love my pump; others hate all pumps. I cannot tolerate Lantus; for others it is an invaluable tool. Even the low-carb discussions sometimes have interesting recipes, and I do love my food. :D

 

Best wishes on your continuing adventures with diabetes. :)

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Sgtmaj
Sgtmaj,

 

If you are a person with diabetes or someone who loves someone with diabetes, then you absolutely need to be here.

 

Thank you for the kind words, but I probably used the wrong term. I said that I shouldn't be on this forum, I meant this thread. I'm not going anywhere. I had D (that I know about) since 1996 and was dx in 2004. I joined DF in Aug this year and have learned more about D in 1 month than I did in all the previous classes that I had to attend. Plus some cool abbriviations.

 

I just really dislike when someone comments on a thread and the only purpose is to start an argument, which is what I did. Since I'm not a LC I shouldn't be commenting on things I know nothing about.

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NickP
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A CRITICISM OF LOW-CARBING IN GENERAL

 

I think you may have fallen for a man with a talent for self-promotion.

 

From what I've read, low-carbing is not taking off in a big way in Sweden. In fact, the sole references I've really found to any kind of low-carbing are either a)from DietDoctor, not exactly a neutral source, b)a newspaper article from about two years ago saying there was a bit of a fad for low-carbing (something that happened in many countries) and c)the usual low-carb bloggy tinfoil hat brigade.

 

I'm not disputing a low-carb diet can have value but I think everyone is reading far too much into decisions made by the Swedish health governing authorities - contrary to popular opinion, Swedish medical authorities have never endorsed low-carbing but simply acknowledged it could play a role in treating certain conditions. Granted, this is perhaps further than most other medical authorities but I think this throw-away sentence in a list of guidelines is being overplayed.

 

Look, I know that low-carbing has worked well for many people here. But why is there this persistent need to treat dietary advice like a team sport? Why do all these supposedly influential blogs talk about 'winning the Battle of Sweden'? Or 'turning the tide'? Or 'leading a diet revolution'? Or even having 'leaders of the movement'? Why are there all these bloggers out there organising 'low-carb cruises' or selling t-shirts that allow the wearing to loudly proclaim they low-carb? And who is buying this stuff? And why on earth are they buying it? People are talking about lobbying at a grassroots level. Since when did what you eat turn into some sort of combination of Star Wars, sports, Church and presidential elections?

 

Once again, yes, low-carbing does work for some people but I really do wonder about some of the people on it. There does seem to a strange subset that seem to get something far more than dietary advice out of it, it's almost like they're more interested in 'belonging' to something. And that's the benign side of it, what about the bloggers who are raking it in from those needy people?

 

Not surprised by your post Deus.

 

Have you met Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt? I had the opportunity to meet and talk with him several times on the Low Carb Cruise last year, and I can tell you he is a very genuine, warm, caring individual. You certainly would be hard pressed to dispute any of the facts in his presentation.

 

If you don't want to follow the HFLC lifestyle...that is your decision. However, the past 40 years of the "low fat" experiment has been a huge failure in this country (and probably a primary cause for my own Diabetes).

 

Please don't keep coming to the Low Carb Forum, and keep bashing folks that are dedicating their time and effort in trying to reverse this trend. Dr Andreas did not get paid to speak at the AHS11, nor did he get paid to be a presented on the Low Carb Cruise. He is paying money out of his pocket because this is a cause that he believes in. I have met several folks in the Low Carb network, and they don't make a great living, and are doing this work because it is their passion and calling.

 

The LC movement is serious in Sweden. Nearly 25% of the population is actively watching the number of carbs they eat (not all of those are on a LCHF diet, but they are watching their intake.....how many in the USA are doing that?). Could you imagine if the same story if a Doctor practicing Low Carb in the US was brought up on charges for giving dangerous advice? (like Dr. Annika Dahlqvist in Sweden was). Imagine if the USDA came out and said....."the Low Carb Diet can be just as effective in treating certain conditions as our "My Plate" Formula"

 

Don't you think people would stand up and say "Huh....how can that be? - if the LCHF diet isn't harmful, then what is the truth?" -- That is what happened in Sweden. Eventually, this truth will come to the USA, however, the USA will not be leading this movement, but will eventually have to follow it as it will come from overseas, it is coming....it will just take some more time.

 

There are still people in the World today that still believe that Earth is Flat......you are pretty hardcore against LC, so I doubt anyone will ever convince you.

 

If you want, send me a PM, and I will send you a link that shows my before and after pictures from eating HFLC. The diet has worked great for me (I have been on it over 1 and half years).

 

BTW....another great book hit the stores this week - "Wheat Belly" by Dr (Cardiologist) William Davis. Check it out. Tom Naughton did a little Q&A with Dr Davis here:

 

Fat Head » Interview with ‘Wheat Belly’ Author Dr. William Davis

 

Hmmm....interesting.....another book by a cardiologists on the evils of Carbs (Dr Atkins was also a cardiologist). Isn't it interesting that the some very famous heart doctors can understand the evils of carbs.....

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raffi

Please don't keep coming to the Low Carb Forum, and keep bashing folks that are dedicating their time and effort in trying to reverse this trend. Dr Andreas did not get paid to speak at the AHS11, nor did he get paid to be a presented on the Low Carb Cruise. He is paying money out of his pocket because this is a cause that he believes in. I have met several folks in the Low Carb network, and they don't make a great living, and are doing this work because it is their passion and calling.

 

I really don't want to start an argument here, but Deus' post was not bashing low carb. Any bashing he was doing was toward the religious like attitude of some low carbers. Not sure if it is worth his time to beat that particular dead horse, but that's another questions. :)

 

I fall into the LC/HF camp and I appreciate a lot of Deus' views. While there is no doubt that LC/HF works for me and would probably help a huge number of people, that does not mean it is the only way people should eat. There is a lot of room between low carb and over the top carboholics. That's something we would do well not to lose sight of.

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foxl
I really don't want to start an argument here, but Deus' post was not bashing low carb. Any bashing he was doing was toward the religious like attitude of some low carbers. Not sure if it is worth his time to beat that particular dead horse, but that's another questions. :)

 

I fall into the LC/HF camp and I appreciate a lot of Deus' views. While there is no doubt that LC/HF works for me and would probably help a huge number of people, that does not mean it is the only way people should eat. There is a lot of room between low carb and over the top carboholics. That's something we would do well not to lose sight of.

 

I think you are right, Raffi. I have been "come-to-jesus" 'd by some people who disapprove of my vegetarianism, (NOT vegan) despite my being a low-carber. I found them to be boorish and offensive in their single-mindedness.

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DeusXM

Thank you Raffi. As you obviously noticed, I was very careful not to criticise the diet (as I don't believe the diet itself necessarily warrants criticism). I was criticising the methods by which people promote it. To some extent, Nick, you've sort of proved my point - you talk about people because they believe in 'a cause', they're part of the 'Low Carb network', and it's their passion and calling.

 

My point (and perhaps I'm just being a bit too personal on this) is that I think it's a bit of an odd person who defines themselves according to what they eat. I like a lot of things in my life, but I don't think I'd ever feel strongly enough about what I eat to go on a cruise dedicated to it and I wouldn't ever pay to go sit in a dark room for an hour to listen to someone tell me about how great ANY particular diet was. As I said, maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just too apathetic a person. Maybe my lack of overall interest is an odd thing in itself and I'm the weird one here. Maybe I still haven't grown out of being a stereotype teen who childishly sneers at people who really, really care about certain things. Maybe the fact I'm aware enough to ask that question says something about me too.

 

I'm not disputing that the diet works for some people. I guess I'm just a bit bemused by the whole LCHF Rapture idea. I just wonder whether for some people, a LCHF diet feeds more than their bellies. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also worth bearing in mind no matter what you believe in, if you're utterly entrenched in an idea and it makes up part of your psyche, it also means you're never going to objectively interpret data - or indeed, be open to the success of others who do things differently.

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Tarrom
Thank you Raffi. As you obviously noticed, I was very careful not to criticise the diet (as I don't believe the diet itself necessarily warrants criticism). I was criticising the methods by which people promote it. To some extent, Nick, you've sort of proved my point - you talk about people because they believe in 'a cause', they're part of the 'Low Carb network', and it's their passion and calling.

 

My point (and perhaps I'm just being a bit too personal on this) is that I think it's a bit of an odd person who defines themselves according to what they eat. I like a lot of things in my life, but I don't think I'd ever feel strongly enough about what I eat to go on a cruise dedicated to it and I wouldn't ever pay to go sit in a dark room for an hour to listen to someone tell me about how great ANY particular diet was. As I said, maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just too apathetic a person. Maybe my lack of overall interest is an odd thing in itself and I'm the weird one here. Maybe I still haven't grown out of being a stereotype teen who childishly sneers at people who really, really care about certain things. Maybe the fact I'm aware enough to ask that question says something about me too.

 

I'm not disputing that the diet works for some people. I guess I'm just a bit bemused by the whole LCHF Rapture idea. I just wonder whether for some people, a LCHF diet feeds more than their bellies. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also worth bearing in mind no matter what you believe in, if you're utterly entrenched in an idea and it makes up part of your psyche, it also means you're never going to objectively interpret data - or indeed, be open to the success of others who do things differently.

 

I completely agree with you.

I was dxd a couple months ago and reading this forum has taught me alot, but I cant help but be disconcerted by the strong opinions on being lchf. People SHOULD be able to critique being LCHF on this forum. By telling someone to stop criticizing what you do, you're essentially admitting that your belief is too weak to take the criticism. The thing is, Ive pretty much eaten fairly low carb almost my entire life unintentionally, just because Ive preferred "heartier" (meat, nuts,etc.) type foods and felt like stuff like rice and bread didnt make me feel full and made me feel a little lethargic afterwards. I think that LCHF is the healthier way to go, both for diabetics and the general population, although because I already like to eat this way its not hard for me to think this way.

 

Deus was spot on when he said that people get more out being LCHF then just the potential health benefits. Theres some sort of culture surrounding LCHF that people like to be a part of that causes an almost sanctimonious attitude. Obviously this isnt just the lchf culture, tons of organized groups are like this. I completely agree with Deus in that I would never pay to go on some low carb cruise or whatever. Its silly. I eat what I eat because I both believe it is good for me and because I like the way it tastes. In the end, its just the food im eating though, I dont feel the need for something like this to consume my life

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NickP
. I was criticising the methods by which people promote it. To some extent, Nick, you've sort of proved my point - you talk about people because they believe in 'a cause', they're part of the 'Low Carb network', and it's their passion and calling.

 

My point (and perhaps I'm just being a bit too personal on this) is that I think it's a bit of an odd person who defines themselves according to what they eat. I like a lot of things in my life, but I don't think I'd ever feel strongly enough about what I eat to go on a cruise dedicated to it and I wouldn't ever pay to go sit in a dark room for an hour to listen to someone tell me about how great ANY particular diet was. As I said, maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just too apathetic a person. Maybe my lack of overall interest is an odd thing in itself and I'm the weird one here. Maybe I still haven't grown out of being a stereotype teen who childishly sneers at people who really, really care about certain things. Maybe the fact I'm aware enough to ask that question says something about me too.

 

I'm not disputing that the diet works for some people. I guess I'm just a bit bemused by the whole LCHF Rapture idea. I just wonder whether for some people, a LCHF diet feeds more than their bellies. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also worth bearing in mind no matter what you believe in, if you're utterly entrenched in an idea and it makes up part of your psyche, it also means you're never going to objectively interpret data - or indeed, be open to the success of others who do things differently.

 

Deus,

 

Glad I was able to prove your point.

 

Yes, this is a forum that bans members for life when they strongly advocate a LC diet to newly diagnosed folks. So, yes, I take offense when you take shots at Post that I started, and against a great doctor. Sorry, but you called out Dr Andreas and his ethics, and I will not allow a bash of great man to go by without a response.

 

Yes, I am proud to be part of the LCHF movement. It has had such a tremenous positive impact on my life.

 

I cannot tell how great it was to go on the Low Carb cruise and to be around people that are supportive of your diet and lifestyle. In general, most people are very unsupportive of the LCHF diet, and it takes a lot of courage to constantly stand up to the public bashing. As a Low Carber, this public scrutinity certainly takes a toll on us, and so, yes, maybe we are defensive. Maybe this is why this movement takes on a tone of being a religion.

 

BTW....diet is a lot like religion, everyone has one, and everyone thinks theirs is the right one.

 

So, Deus, I expect will continue to bash me each time I make a post. Sorry, but I found your post in poor taste, in a section that is meant to be supportive of the LC Lifestyle. There was nothing radical in Dr Andreas' speach (if you actually took the time to listen to it...). He made some very simple points, and just connected the dots.

 

And yes, I understand that my diet may not work for everyone, and agree with that. However, most won't even give it a chance because of the "popular opinion" against it. Some folks even know it will work for them, but cannot fight the addiction from carbs and sugars.

 

Again, I challenge anyone to look at my results....it is possible for diet to cure many of the current medical conditions that we all are suffering. Why are we afraid to try it?......

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foxl

I agree it takes more than typical motivation to sustain low-carbing. Not because of the food, but because of external pressure -- even the sort Deus is exerting, which is actually pretty mild.

 

I have benefitted greatly from eating low carb, thanks to the people who talked about it here, some of whom have left now. We should not have to justify our way of eating, but we do. I am one person who, because of my experience with the so-called Paleos and Primals, with their rigid rules that go beyond counting carb grams, does not identify with any "movement" of that sort. Quite the contrary, I feel even more of an outcast, not fitting in with the vegetarians or the low-carb meat-monsters (LOL). I do belong to a low-carb vegetarian group on FB but it is not large or active, and there is a goodly amount of dissent as to how to define healthy eating for diabetics.

 

I still see no reason to ignore the information, including the presentation Nick has posted. Because ... it is counter to the mainstream view. Those who have been here a long time may be tired of the push to try low-carbing. Me, I often feel like it is preaching to the choir. And I do my share of chiming in as part of the choir, I know. But for someone who is afraid of trying low-carb, because of our government and commercial propaganda, I still think it is important to get the message out, that it is worth trying, and certainly at least for the short term, there is research that supports it as healthy.

 

I hope it helps someone else who is considering trying low-carb, as much as it has helped me, to read posts like this. That is why we have a Low Carb Forum ...

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