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xMenace

Video - Donald W. Miller, Jr., M.D

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xMenace

Dr. Miller is a cardiac surgeon. This is an hour long presentation which covers much of what we argue about. It is not complete, no video can be, but it's a great start to the rest of your life. He presents a compelling case with some interesting images and video snippets. It's enjoyable to the end.

 

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BriOnH

Just got done watching it.

 

Gave me a lot to think about and research. One point that was not brought up until the end, when the older gentleman asked about it was exercise. In the presentation it had an analogy of what life would be like if it (that is all of human existence) was condensed into one year. Farming would be a month old, and the trans fats, along with the current epidemic of heart disease would only be about 10 min old, but with the trans fats and the influx of carbs, most noted by the amount of coke we drink (and a 12 oz of coke is 39g of Carb, not 42g), another thing i notice in those 10 min is we got plain lazy. In those 10 min cars came to most households, TV's, radio's, video games, computers, the telephone, the telegraph, electricity. If carb's are first most responsible for the current rate of heart disease and obesity, I have no doubt that it's inverse, of exercise, is a close second if not tied.

 

IF what I have seen all checks out I can't say I will be surprised. You wont get any argument from me that carbs really are the bigger enemy. I will say however that our lack of exercise, I believe, is right next to it.

 

Very interesting video thank you for the post!

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Chanson13

Very interesting, xMenace. I've heard much of the same information from other sources. Interesting story about the origins of the low-fat recommendations in the late 1970's.

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xMenace

Many of these segmenbts were borrowed from "Fat Head," the movie. You can find it on youtube in ten minute chunks.

 

Taubes argues there are no studies showing that exercise alone results in weight normalization. The insulin argument does make sense. By storing fuel and keeping it stored, regardless of energy demands, we promote obesity and lethargy. Insulin does not allow the body to use its fat stores. Take any exercising type 1 for example. I have lots of fat to burn, but if I have insulin on board when I exercise that makes my BGs drop, then I have to eat. And I'm not saying I have to because I get hungry; I have to because I will get in serious trouble if I don't. My body will shut down. Any IDD knows this.

 

The question is whether it's a simply mistmatch of insulin and need or does this happen to everybody, even non-IDDs. The fact that exercise "works up an appetite" suggests it's true. We constantly see athletes fueling themselves. Marathoners generally can't do their whole distance without fueling, and their fat stores don't all get used. If you ar exercising to lose weight and this insulin theory is true, then consuming sugar energy drinks while exercising is about the worst thing you can do.

 

Taubes in "Why We Get Fat" takes us through numerous examples where this standard calories in versus calories out argument fails. Obese single mothers with malnourished children is one example. I often use the US Army. It's arguably a highly disciplined organizaation and the members get plenty of exercise, even the desk people, yet rates of obesity are very close to national statistics. Taubes description of experiments with removing mice ovaries shows mice get obese and lethargic without estrogen, a clearly hormonal cause demonstrating lethargy and gluttony as effects, not causes.

 

This video is not enough to convince anyone, but it might open your eyes.

 

I ask once again: show me the evidence saturated fat and cholesterol cause heart disease. I've yet to find it.

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BriOnH

Taubes argues there are no studies showing that exercise alone results in weight normalization. The insulin argument does make sense. By storing fuel and keeping it stored, regardless of energy demands, we promote obesity and lethargy. Insulin does not allow the body to use its fat stores. Take any exercising type 1 for example. I have lots of fat to burn, but if I have insulin on board when I exercise that makes my BGs drop, then I have to eat. And I'm not saying I have to because I get hungry; I have to because I will get in serious trouble if I don't. My body will shut down. Any IDD knows this.

 

If your premise is "weight normalization" I would probably concur. My premise is the influx of carbs and little to no exercise will make you bigger, and bigger. As the video shows we eat (as Americans mostly) an enormous amount of carbs. Not using those sugars as fuel, it will be stored as fat, and hence gain weight. If you exercise a lot but still consume a bunch of carbs I would still think you would be healthier with the exercise vs non exercise, but yeah, you probably aren't going to loose any weight.

 

I am a bit confused on what our premises are here though to be honest. I have been away from the forums for a while so please forgive me as I try to catch up. What I got from the video mostly was that saturated fats aren't as evil as people are 'made' to think they are. I can say from personal observation that older people I know who have had heart bypasses and did not change their eating habits AND got on a healthy exercise regime had less problems then those who continued to eat high saturated, high carb, foods and got little to no exercise. If they just ate high saturated fats, got rid of the carbs, and go little to no exercise, would they be better off? According to the video it suggests so, and it might be true (I can't change what I have thought and learned about high saturated fats over night but like the film suggests my mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open). The people that I know who have continued success after heart problems, and are the healthiest, are the ones who cut out high saturated fats, lots of carbs and are on a good exercise program. If they just cut carbs and did exercise would they be even healthier with a higher saturated fat diet? I honestly don't know, especially since many high saturated foods have significant carbs(milk), salt(bacon, ham), and nitrates(though if you get your high saturated fats from free range, grass fed, happy animals nitrates are probably less of a concern considering how they are processed).

 

The question is whether it's a simply mistmatch of insulin and need or does this happen to everybody, even non-IDDs. The fact that exercise "works up an appetite" suggests it's true. We constantly see athletes fueling themselves. Marathoners generally can't do their whole distance without fueling, and their fat stores don't all get used. If you ar exercising to lose weight and this insulin theory is true, then consuming sugar energy drinks while exercising is about the worst thing you can do.

 

If you are exercising to loose weight and you consume more carbs then you burn you will not loose weight. For me exercise actually seems to make me want to eat less, but I am a population of 1 and we are all different. Marathoners, and runners who have been running for years, have very, very little fat on them. Their fat went somewhere over time, my guess is used for energy and muscle building. I can't speak to type 2 diabetes but I can for sure speak to type 1 on this. My friends that run regularly and are type 1 are thin, and have runners bodies. Again thats a small population but it's 100% of that population.

 

Taubes in "Why We Get Fat" takes us through numerous examples where this standard calories in versus calories out argument fails. Obese single mothers with malnourished children is one example. I often use the US Army. It's arguably a highly disciplined organizaation and the members get plenty of exercise, even the desk people, yet rates of obesity are very close to national statistics. Taubes description of experiments with removing mice ovaries shows mice get obese and lethargic without estrogen, a clearly hormonal cause demonstrating lethargy and gluttony as effects, not causes.

 

"standerd Calories in vs calories out" - Can you elaborate on that? If you ingest a bunch of carb and trans fats I don't think it would take much to show that you are going to get fatter if you don't use those carbs for kinetic energy. In the video it showed if you want to maintain your weight on average you should eat less then 150g of carb a day. If you want to loose weight you should be in the sweet spot of around 75g of carb a day. If that isn't a testament to carb's in vs carbs out then I believe I have failed in understanding the premise of that part of the video.

 

 

This video is not enough to convince anyone, but it might open your eyes.

 

I ask once again: show me the evidence saturated fat and cholesterol cause heart disease. I've yet to find it.

 

Your last statement really is the heart of this matter, of the video, and I myself am guilty of a tangent in throwing exercise into the mix. I really can't argue on saturated fats and heart disease, to be quite honest, because it hasn't effected me yet (and pray it doesn't I really have enough health problems as it is). Does it go against everything I know to be true about saturated fat? Yes, mostly (minus the obvious biochemical stuff like cellular diffusion and other important pathways). All I can say is that I open to learning more about saturated fats and heart disease and obesity.

 

My point about exercise is this, and I will try to summate it up as shortly as I can. If you want to loose weight watch your diet, and exercise. Exercise will make you healthier and it will contribute to you getting thinner, plain and simple. Not to mention it just makes you feel good and keeps your metabolism faster. Just watch a season of the biggest looser if you really want data on that. I do believe that exercise and the lack thereof in the past 100 years is just as important as diet in staying healthy and getting thinner.

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