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TeddySue

Are you on a diet to lose weight?

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LCD
12 hours ago, Oriana said:

I went off keto bc I was mad that the scale showed a 14 pd loss but my jeans didn't fit any better.

 

Oriana - You should be proud of your 14 pound weight loss.  That is an awesome achievement.  Next time you are at a store, pick up a 15 pound bag of dog food.  That is what you have LOST.  Try putting that bag in your jeans. I am sure that you will notice a change in your jeans soon. Keep up the good work. Libby

15 POUNDS OF DOG FOOD (2).jpg

Edited by LCD
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Oriana

my weight is back up to 299.8. going off low carb always makes my weight jump

 

i'm going to try to get back on that stationary bike i have posted about so many times. it is rainy season here so it's the best option for now. i need to strengthen my respiratory system along with weight loss. a peer support worker has been taking me out once a week but i'm having a 3 week period where i'm not seeing her. next appt is the 18th i think

 

kit i'm glad that way of eating is working for you

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LCD
21 minutes ago, Oriana said:

my weight is back up to 299.8. going off low carb always makes my weight jump

 

Oriana - That is okay, that is a better starting number than one of your previous weights of 325.  Would you rather weight 299.8 or 325 ?

You have lost weight on low carb and you will continue to lose weight.  I know your can do it, Girl.  Libby

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janice21475

Glad  to see you post, Oriana. Happy you finally got the Doctors to believe you about the pain. This could be the beginning of  more good things. I share your concerns for ModCarb and send best wishes for her & you, too.

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Kit

Well I screwed up on the two meals yesterday.  I think I over estimated lunch and ate too much.  8pm last night I still felt uncomfortably full and so did not eat dinner.  My BG was also not as happy with the meal as I would personally prefer.  Perhaps that cauliflower dish wasn't as friendly as I thought it would be.

 

Oh well, we live and learn.  Going to give it a better go today.  Or I'll just give up and keep doing OMAD.  It has the benefit of being really easy.

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Kit
1 hour ago, Kit said:

Well I screwed up on the two meals yesterday.  I think I over estimated lunch and ate too much.  8pm last night I still felt uncomfortably full and so did not eat dinner.  My BG was also not as happy with the meal as I would personally prefer.  Perhaps that cauliflower dish wasn't as friendly as I thought it would be.

 

Oh well, we live and learn.  Going to give it a better go today.  Or I'll just give up and keep doing OMAD.  It has the benefit of being really easy.

 

I do have to say, 22 hours without eating and I feel like I am bouncing off the walls.  I really like the energy I have.  I wish I understood why I had so many problems the first time I tried this.

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Kit

"Lunch" was around 1pm (fasted for 25 hours) with a ~4oz new york strip steak with an avocado.  Mixed a couple tablespoons primal kitchen mayo with about a teaspoon of sriracha to use as a steak sauce.  I am stuffed but part of me wants to eat more.  I'm ignoring that part as I ate plenty during that meal.  Whether I eat tonight will depend on how I am feeling.

 

Did you know its possible to cook a steak in a toaster oven?  I still prefer grilled but it turned out a lot better than I thought.  My coworkers despise me now because the smell made them all hungry.  :)

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ran23

took my wife out for a b'day lunch.  I saw open faced sandwich.   Reuben sandwich was my choice.   Ate everything off the top.  good lunch, no breads. 

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Kit

So yesterday I was dealing with some significant real hunger.  I ate my planned "lunch" at around 1pm (I had wanted to wait until 2pm) and then had a small snack (~1oz cheese and some cucumber with a home made vinaigrette) when I got home from work at around 7pm.  So yesterday was 18/6 IF.

 

Since I had planned to do this anyway this week (just ended up later than sooner) I am still well on track.  OMAD is planned again for today and tomorrow.  Saturday will be a normal eating day of 3 meals (all keto of course).  Depending on how I feel, Sunday will be either two meals or one.

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Kit

I admit, when I start researching a subject, I can get a little obsessed.  :)

 

Anyway, that link to Dr Fung's blog goes to the first post, and I've just kept going and going.

 

Some interesting things he has to say.

 

1)  It is not an evolutionary advantage to be either over or under weight.  Both cause problems with survival and reproduction.  And from an evolutionary standpoint, the entire point is surviving long enough to produce healthy offspring and bringing them to the point where they can care for themselves.

 

 

2)  Our base metabolic rates are NOT constant, they fluctuate.  Building on #1 above, if a person was too thin and weak, they could not survive to reproduce and care for children.  When food becomes scarce, the base metabolic rate also drops.  When food is more plentiful, the base metabolic rate goes up.

 

 

3)  Calories in/calories out is a myth.

https://idmprogram.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/

Calories In and Calories out are independent of one another

https://idmprogram.com/key-assumptions-calories-part-iii/

 

 

"So, is the problem that obese people have a low TEE? Let’s look at this article “High energy expenditure masks low physical activity in obesity”. In this study, lean and obese subjects had their Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) measured by doubly labeled water, Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) by indirect calorimetry and activity energy expenditure (AEE) or ‘exercise’, measured by multisensor activity monitors.

Sounds very difficult and even a little painful. So what were the results? Did obese subjects have a ‘slow’ or ‘low’ metabolism? Ummm… no. Actually quite the opposite. Lean subjects had a mean TDEE of 2404 calories while the obese had a mean TDEE of 3244 calories. The obese subjects also spent less time in ‘exercise’, but despite this, had a much higher TDEE. What gives?"

 

"What happens to the body if you suddenly restrict caloric intake? According to the CRaP hypothesis, the Total Energy Expenditure (TEE) should remain the same. Reduce calories and keep TEE constant will result in burning fat for energy and patients should lose weight. Sounds great.

However, in reality, TEE dropped substantially – a whopping 30%. The men complained constantly of being unable to stay warm, even with an “abundance of clothes”. Heart rate and blood pressure dropped. Men showed a marked inability to concentrate and marked weakness during physical activity. In other words, their metabolism was shutting down."

 

"Why does the body do this? Well, because the body is smart and doesn’t want to die. "

 

The point he's making (and I just pulled pieces from the series of articles) is that calorie restriction rarely successfully works for the long run.  I challenge anyone here to say they lost weight using strictly calorie reduction and SUCCESSFULLY KEPT IT OFF without keeping calories severely restricted.

 

Oh, and look into the Minnesota Starvation Experiment (wow, talk ethics here)

 

My favorite quote

"We feel we have failed ourselves. We think that it is our fault. Our doctors, dieticians, and other medical professionals silently criticize us for ‘failing’. Others silently think we have no ‘willpower’, and offer meaningless platitudes. Sound familiar? Yeah, I thought so."

 

My pet treatment doesn't work on you, so it must be your fault, not my treatment.

Hey, we get that with diabetes management as well.

From my personal experience.:

Me:  "Doctor, I need help.  My numbers have jumped significantly in the last couple of weeks and I have no idea why.  No matter what I do or do not eat, they just keep going up"

Doctor:  (This is a DIRECT copy and paste from MyChart)

"According to the ADA, anything under 180 is perfectly fine.  Stop worrying about it, you are just getting emotional and that is causing your numbers to rise."

 

 

4)  It is extremely difficult for a healthy person to gain weight and keep it on.  In fact, there were a few studies that looked at this.

https://idmprogram.com/the-astonishing-overeating-paradox-calories-part-x/

 

"...Dr. Sims quickly abandoned that route and instead forced convicts at the Vermont State Prison to be in his experiment. Physical activities could also be strictly controlled. Initially convicts were fed 4000 calories/ day. They figured that was enough, but a funny thing happened. People started gaining weight initially but then the weight gain stabilized.

So, with a combination of scientific curiosity and loose ethical control (hello – informed consent?), some people were made to eat upwards of 10,000 calories/day. 10,000 calories per day! One man only gained 10 pounds with all that. However, most people did gain upwards of 20% of body weight. What happened to their energy expenditure? Metabolism, or Total Energy Expenditure (TEE) increased by 50%."

 

"When the experiment ended, what surprised researchers the most was the rapidity with which body weight returned to normal. In fact, most of these people did not keep any of the weight they gained. So, here we see that overeating does NOT, in fact, lead to obesity. The body is more like a thermostat. While body weight may temporarily go above the set weight, it quickly reduces things back to normal."

 

 

5)  Obesity is a hormonal condition, not a calorie issue.

https://idmprogram.com/historic-perspective-obesity-hormonal-obesity-1/

 

 

6)  While exercise is extremely good for you, it does not really help you loose weight.

https://idmprogram.com/myth-exercise-exercise-part-1/

 

He quotes a New York Times article called "Debunking the Hunter Gatherer Workout"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opinion/sunday/debunking-the-hunter-gatherer-workout.html?_r=1&

 

"We found that despite all this physical activity, the number of calories that the Hadza burned per day was indistinguishable from that of typical adults in Europe and the United States. We ran a number of statistical tests, accounting for body mass, lean body mass, age, sex and fat mass, and still found no difference in daily energy expenditure between the Hadza and their Western counterparts."

 

Back to Dr Fung

 

"The reason is called compensation.  The Hadza, who were walking all day, reduced their physical activity when not necessary.  Those North Americans who were sitting all day, on the other hand, likely increased their activity.

Think about it this way.  If you have been walking all day gathering roots and bugs to eat, the last thing you want to do in your spare time is to go for a 10 km run.  On the other hand, if you have been sitting in a meeting all day, then a 10 km run after work sounds pretty good.

Here’s the bottom line.  There is no measurable association between obesity and physical activity.  I’m not saying exercise is not good for you.  It just doesn’t work that well for weight loss.

We only believe that exercise is effective for weight loss because it has been drilled into our heads since primary school.  The relationship simply does not exist.  Somebody thought it sounded good, but the evidence simply does not back up this relationship."

 

And, I'm still reading.

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meyery2k

My own personal observation after nearly 3 years keeping off 100 pounds.

 

I found that, initially, I did have to reduce calories to lose weight.  I was simply eating too much food.  Even when I look at what I do now, what I ate then offered an extreme surplus of energy.  The trick for me was to make those calories count with nutrition (vegetables and good proteins) and fats.  Once I dialed this in, I was rarely hungry and had all the energy I needed.  While I was losing weight, I was taking in about 1800-2000 calories a day.  

 

Now, I find I eat more.  I estimate that I burn 4,000 to 5,000 calories on a big ride day.  I probably burn 3,000 to 4,000 on my general fitness ride day (assuming a 2000 calorie estimated basal rate).  I need the energy.  On rest days, I still find I should eat about the same amount of food.  My athlete friends believe that this is OK since that energy goes to repair, recover, and rebuild.

 

I had my weight down to 210 for a while.  It has come back up to 220 and stays there.  It varies +/- 3 pounds.  When I was at 210 there was more variation.  While I like the number 210 better, I accept that maybe 220 is where I need to be.  It seems to be a good balance physically and emotionally.

 

On a big ride day, my breakfast would probably horrify a nutritionist.  A big gob of peanut butter, nuts, cheese, and an Atkins or SlimFast shake.  I carry nuts and small packets of peanut butter or almond butter on the road.  It works for me because it is a large amount of energy in a small amount of food.  If I ate the traditional bacon and eggs breakfast, I don't feel so well until it gets a little digested.  Less is more in this case.  Some of the pros carry energy cubes or gel cubes which are primarily simple carbs.  I have never tried those because I fear the havoc they would raise with my glucose and, to me more importantly, raises my insulin to use the glucose.  I am falling more into the camp that hyperinsulinism is the "man behind the curtain" behind many of the problems those with uncontrolled diabetes conetend with.  Insulin seems to do far more than just unlock cells to uptake and use glucose which, to me, would not be surprising.  Just my $.02 from an armchair student of life.

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Oriana

sorry to change the subject.

 

i've tried coconut flour for the first time in a mug cake (the price has come down substantially here) and it was gross. I don't know if it is the flour or the recipe. it is one with cream cheese in it and it has a weird aftertaste. you are supposed to microwave the cream cheese to combine it with butter and i wonder is that the weird taste or is it the flour? i also have to cook it for 2 min 30 sec instead of 2 mins and that cooks the outside a tad too much but if i dont it is raw on the inside. (VERY old microwave) i have to say tho i like the texture much more than almond flour and it is less dry. 

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Kit
On 10/7/2019 at 2:14 AM, Oriana said:

hi guys. still no modcarb? makes me worried bc i thought she was doing better last time she posted. 

 

I went off keto bc I was mad that the scale showed a 14 pd loss but my jeans didn't fit any better. I thought I was just losing water weight and i was mad. 

 

@Oriana

I'm sorry, but I look at the above statement as "I wanted a reason to stop doing it"

 

And yet later you say you didn't loose weight for 2 months.  Which was it?  You can't loose weight and not loose weight at the same time.

 

On 9/8/2019 at 6:59 AM, Oriana said:

ok. I have been trying to think of why I stopped losing weight on lowcarb (sort of keto) after 1 month and the only thing different i think is that I was drinking a lot of diet pepsi. google says that wont effect it but will it? i've heard there is a insulin response even tho  no sugar.

 

You have heard correctly.  I've actually been reading a lot about the subject lately.  While some sweeteners may not raise glucose, they DO raise insulin, and excess insulin will cause weight gain.  And yes, even Stevia does.  Makes me sad too because Stevia agrees with me so well.  If you stop loosing weight on a keto diet, the two most likely causes are sweeteners and too much protein.  And, if you look at my post right above here, NOT CALORIES!

 

This is the reason why I said while I'm doing this, I am using no sweeteners at all.

 

While I have never noticed protein raising my BG levels, it does trigger an insulin response.  And I noticed years ago that raising my protein level would stop weight loss.

Edited by Kit

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Oriana

kit i did keto 2 different times from the start of june. the first month i lost 20 then didn't lose for two months and went off it. i started again and lost 14 then went off it

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Kit
15 minutes ago, Oriana said:

kit i did keto 2 different times from the start of june. the first month i lost 20 then didn't lose for two months and went off it. i started again and lost 14 then went off it

 

So that says to me that changing things up gives you a more consistent weight loss.

 

I'm doing something similar in that I am changing how often I am eating.  4 days of OMAD, one day of IF (2 meals 6 hours apart), two days of OMAD again.  Tomorrow (Saturday) I will eat 3 keto meals, then back to IF and OMAD again.

 

The hard part as been keeping my food intake up, I personally don't want to do a major calorie deficit.  Though Fung says that the calorie was really a human invention.  The body has no way to detect calories.

 

I actually suspect I have been hyperinsulinemic for most of my life, at the latest by second grade.  That's when I started getting pudgy even though I was eating exactly the same as the other children in my school and just as active as well.  I was out there running around like a little maniac every much as they were.

 

So what changed?

 

I was eating breakfast and lunch at school.  My mom had gone to nurses training (2 years full time) and so did not have time to feed us breakfast.

 

 

We would line up and as a class, file into the lunch room, and our meal would already be laid out on the table for us.  To drink, there would be a container of chocolate milk.  If we wanted what we called "white" milk, we had to raise our hands and wait for someone to come around and bring us a replacement.  So, I was eating processed foods at school, and honestly a lot of processed foods at home because my mother no longer had time to cook from scratch every day.

 

My brothers were also teenagers and had jobs at local fast food places.  They brought home large amounts of soda and other junk foods, which my parents had rarely ever bought before.  By the time I was in highschool, I was on a strict diet soda only kick, and like most other kids of my generation, drank an obscene amount of it.  Diet Mt Dew was my favorite.

 

I'd try to loose weight too.  I'd have a granola bar (glorified candy bar) for breakfast thinking it was good.  Then I'd often skip lunch and instead, just grab a diet soda from a machine.  Then I'd have a mostly processed dinner at home (most things from a box or can).  I didn't loose weight during this time, I gained some.

 

And I did NOT get lazy.  I walked an obscene amount of miles every day.  It was three miles just to go to school and come back let along wanting to go to fiend's houses.  I played softball.  I was on the swim team for a number of years.  I biked all over town when I didn't have the time to walk.  At that time and place, being driven around by your parents WAS NOT DONE.  If you were driven to school, its because you had a broken leg or something similar  You had 3 options.  Walk, bike, or bus.  And the bus cost money so wasn't as often.  I biked from the town I lived in to another one 45 miles away without even blinking an eye.  Got in huge trouble for it by my parents who had to come and get me because it was getting dark and it was another 45 miles to home. :)

 

I got weird to drop enough weight to go into the military, and was down to around 800 processed food calories a day.  All the while walking, skating, swimming, softball, I even managed to talk my parents into letting me join a gym.  I spent 2 hours a night there after school. I managed to get my weight down and keep it there, but I was never able to stop the diet, stop counting and counting and counting.

 

And then in basic training I gained 5 pounds.  Seriously  And no, it was not muscle gain.  No snacking, extremely active, we started our mornings with calisthenics and a 2 mile run before we went back for breakfast and then finally a chance to have our first pee of the morning.  I had amazing bladder control at that age.  :)  We'd run the various places we had to go, running as a squad of 30 people staying in formation can be interesting in full uniform (BDUs and combat boots).  But yet I gained 5 pounds.

 

By the time I was out and married, I completely and totally gave up.  I was so tired of it, sick to death of it, couldn't stand it, and so stopped.  Stopped counting, stopped measuring, just stopped.  Funny enough I gained some weight, but then went weight stable for a number of years again.  Higher than was good for me, but stable.

 

And then I went back to work full time and stopped cooking from scratch meals at home.  That time thing again.  And I gained weight.

 

Got laid off and, due to financial reasons, started cooking from scratch again.  Weight dropped significantly and then went stable.  Higher than I should have been, but not near what it had been like (210 pounds at my measured highest weight, which is significant when you are 5'1").

 

And after I was diagnosed diabetic, I started counting calories again for a couple months until I discovered lchf and keto.  Then all I really had to keep track of was carbs and keep an eye on protein.  Boom, lost weight again and had been weight stable for 5 years (without ever counting a stupid calorie).  And then SSRI and boom, 15 pounds weight gain.

 

Funny enough, research shows that SSRIs DO have affects on blood glucose and can even cause diabetes.  They don't raise blood glucose, they mostly lower it.  In fact many give warnings about possible hypos if you are diabetic.  That tells me they increase insulin production (hyperinsulinism again).

 

As I mentioned, once I started keto I stopped measuring and counting other than carbs.  I've mentioned here numerous times that I do not track my fat intake and that I just eat lots of fatty meats and other sources of natural fats.  I cannot in true honesty say exactly how many calories I eat a day.  Cause I don't count that fat.  I can tell you how many carbs I ate (or an approximate of it).  I can even give you an idea of how much protein, but as far as fat goes, I'm really not sure.  Well honestly periodically I do go through and measure eevrything for a day, just to make sure I'm not getting into bad habits.  When I do, my fat intake is usually about 100-120g per day

 

According to Dr Fung, its not willpower, its not eating too much, its not about being lazy. its hormonal.  All of our body process are regulated, usually by hormones. (Did you know there are hormones that regulates hunger?)  The issue is hormone balance and, as T2 diabetics, our insulin levels always run high, even if our BG numbers are normal.  And one of insulin's jobs is to store energy.  

 

My personal history matches up pretty well with what he is saying, so I am willing to give it a try.  In all honesty, yes, I would like to loose this 15 pounds and now that I am off the SSRI, I feel I should be able to do this easily enough.  At least I hope.  But I am concerned about the health aspects of hyperinsuilinemia itself.  I have read that hyperinsulinemic is very much associated with heart attacks, strokes, and other ailments, independent of glucose levels.

 

The only way I know to lower insulin (other than removing my pancreas or becoming a T2 diabetc) is to limit when I eat.  The longer I go without eating, the more time my insulin levels are closer to normal.  This is my primary motivation.  Not fat, not weight, its insulin.

 

It hurts nothing to try.  I am not going extreme.  I eat every day and I eat good foods, not processed junk.  I'll report here how it goes.

 

BTW - my above history is the reason why I refuse to have a scale in my house (other than food scale).  The thought of having to keep a hawk like gaze on that scale number again literally makes me want to sob just thinking about it

 

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Kit
On 10/11/2019 at 2:50 PM, Oriana said:

sorry to change the subject.

 

i've tried coconut flour for the first time in a mug cake (the price has come down substantially here) and it was gross. I don't know if it is the flour or the recipe. it is one with cream cheese in it and it has a weird aftertaste. you are supposed to microwave the cream cheese to combine it with butter and i wonder is that the weird taste or is it the flour? i also have to cook it for 2 min 30 sec instead of 2 mins and that cooks the outside a tad too much but if i dont it is raw on the inside. (VERY old microwave) i have to say tho i like the texture much more than almond flour and it is less dry. 

 

To me, coconut flour tastes like coconut, just as almond flour tastes like almonds.  I've never noticed an aftertaste.  if you tastes some of the flour by itself, does it have the same aftertaste?  Could it have been caused by a different ingredient maybe?  Or maybe its a combination of ingredients giving the sensation?

 

I also prefer coconut flour.  I love that its both cheaper than almond flour plus you use significantly less of it then almond flour.  For lunch today I'm planning on making a grilled breakfast sandwich (bacon egg and cheese) using a coconut flour flat bread.  You actually make the bread in a skillet as you are assembling the sandwich.

 

 

On 10/11/2019 at 4:21 PM, Kit said:

BTW - my above history is the reason why I refuse to have a scale in my house (other than food scale).  The thought of having to keep a hawk like gaze on that scale number again literally makes me want to sob just thinking about it

 

 

I forgot to add.  Its also the reason I REFUSE to eat a boneless skinless chicken breast or baked/grilled cod.  Those were pretty much my only protein sources for more years than I want to count.  Yeah, I was even told not to eat salmon because it was a fatty fish.  Shrimp was also banned because it contains cholesterol.  Given that I adore shellfish, this one broke my heart.

 

If time travel existed, I would go back in time to my Jr High years (I didn't cook my own stuff in grade school) and teach myself about keto.  I suspect it would have solved a lot of heart ache.

 

Its funny.  The doctor who yelled at me because I ate an egg made a point to say, multiple times, that it was perfectly ok for a T2 diabetic to eat cake.  But I would be putting my life into my own hands if I ate an egg and dooming myself to immediate massive heart attack.

 

I still say the west has a very very sick relationship with food.

Edited by Kit

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adiantum

Ive not thought to use coconut flour so will put that on the shopping list.

Today I made a  mug muffin & used passionfruit  with great success... admittedly I served it with a dollop sour cream.

Its not passionfruit season here yet so I thawed 2 bars of frozen fruit.

Its a fruit that I can tolerate without a bg rise.

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meyery2k

I went to the dermatologist to have the BCC removed from my scalp.  While undergoing the procedure we started talking about nutrition.  He mentioned that he was following Dr. Fung's IF plan.  I further dared to mention that I though hyperinsulinemia could be a bigger problem than realized and, to my surprise, he agreed.

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Kit

Still chugging away.  Funny thing, its actually easier to do OMAD for me right now than it is to do 2 or 3 meals a day.  I tend to be hungrier when I eat more often.  Hormones.  I need to do more reading on the subject as I keep forgetting all of the different interactions between the various hormones.

 

Oh, and since I've posted a lot about the subject, I thought I would add in another link that I've already posted here a number of times.

 

It's the Insulin Stupid

http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/09/its-the-insulin-1.html

Part 1 in a series of 8 articles.

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