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synonymous

A break from training and this happened: A little help

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synonymous

I posted this in the t2 forum and it was suggested I post it here instead, so here goes:

 

I live in Japan were there isn't much information about diabetes. I was diagnosed with type 2 in 2011. I had monitored my levels closely in the years leading up to it because I trained (Powerlifting) and ate large amounts of total calories. When my H1ac went up, I decided to stop powerlifting and went to more bodybuilding/body recomposition style training...in other words, to lose weight.

 

I had no blood sugar monitor for a long time (In Japan, you only get one when you are a full blown diabetic on insulin...dumb). An American friend sent the cheap Relion one over with test strips and that gave me a good idea of what was happening. I went from H1ac of 8.9 to 6.2 in about 6 months. My fasting blood sugar went from 190 to 120. It was like this for almost all of 2012 and most of 2013.

 

October this year my family visited for 2 weeks. For 2 weeks I did nothing about my diabetes. I ate as they ate, drank as they did. I was on vacation too. As soon as they left, I had a bad cold. I found it tough to get back into the gym because of that but I manage to make it. Unfortunately, I've only been testing again the last 10 days. I must have really messed stuff up and now I'm worried I won't get it back under control. I go to bed with a BG of around 130 to 140. I have a protein shake (200 calories, about 50 grams of protein and 2 grams of sugar) 8 hours later I wake up and my BG is 160. If I don't have the protein pre-bedtime, I can wake up with even higher levels. I have a protein/fat meal for breakfast. I go to the chiropractor/masseuse and 3 hours later my BG is 190. I don't know if this is the masseuse or something else. I test throughout the day and I am all over the place. I'm very careful about my carb timing. I eat pre-workout and post-workout. After a session at the gym (For the last 10 days) I start at 150-60 and finish with a BG of 190-200. During the workout I consume a 50 grams liquid carb drink (Otherwise I wouldn't be able to get through the workout). Post-workout, I have 50 grams of protein. About 2 to 3 hours later I have my post-workout meal. Before my meal I've been as low as 70, but averaged about 85. They last 10 days I've averaged about 100.

 

So, is this going to be a slow process BACK into the lower numbers or have I done something wrong or missed something or am I over-reacting? My doctor says I should avoid sugar and walk everyday. Thing is, I do...there's not a lot of information to be shared here in Japan. Type 1 diabetes is more common and even then the diet is fish, rice, soup.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Glad I found this board!!

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oblivious

First off, liquid carbs will spike your BG. Depending a little on the carb type, but generally taking things in liquid form gets taken up by the body a lot faster then eating solid foods.

Personally I would rather eat a meal maybe 1-2 hours before work out, with slow digesting carbs.. Then you wont get BG spikes (wich stresses your pancreas and insulin receptors, bad for you T2) and you will have energ through out the work out.

If you need more carbs post work out, take a green banana (the greener the banana the lower the GI) and eat some cucumber a long with your shake.

 

If you had a nasty cold, that will make your body produce more glucose wich will raise your BG levels, some times drastically.

When I had the flu, my BG went up to over 10mmol/l in a fasted state. I don`t take meds, but during the flu and for a little while after I had to take metformin to get it under control again.

When you are sick, your body experiences trauma, or even if you are stressed your body will start to produce glucose and send it in to the blood stream to get energy where it is needed to fix the problem.

Needless to say, this can be a problem for diabetics..

If you get a virus, or infection in the body, it might take some time before you are completely healthy again. So keep monitoring it and eat good. Avoid fast carbs ;)

 

My top 3 foods to naturally regulating BG :

Cinnamon

Garlic

Croockedneck squash

 

There are more foods that help with BG control naturally, these 3 seem to do good for me.

Another tip for getting better insulin sensitivity is HIIT.

High Intensity Interval Training. According to fresh science this will increase insulin sensetivity greatly.

It`s explained in a BBC Documentary called "the truth behind exercise.

 

If you go off the healthy eating plan for a diabetic for longer periods of time, it will set your system out of wack, and it might take some time to get things back in order.

Keep working out and eating good, there are a lot of good tips in the forums here.

Stay strong and keep at it, good luck!

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synonymous

Thanks oblivious. A couple of questions if that's OK...?

 

The routine I have is MI40. The intensity of the routine calls for a 50 gram liquid carb mid-routine. The way I take it is in the form of dextrose along with creatine, HMB and beta-alanine (It's a combined supplement called Results). I was hesitant about using this supplement and closely monitored my BG before, during after drinking and post-workout. However, my BG didn't go any higher than if I hadn't taken it. My BG always spikes during exercises. While healthy (Pre-holiday) I would have that spike (dextrose or not) and the 2 differences that without it, I wouldn't be able to complete the routine and without it I would I get the shakes and I need a solid food meal (Which isn't always possible right out of the gym) with carbs. My blood sugars drop right after I finish my routine. However, with the supplement I can have 50 grams of protein as I'm on my way home and when I get home (Anywhere from 1 to 2 hours later) my BG are low at about 70 or 80. Is this bad?

 

According to the MI40 plan, your body is in a state where it can use more glycogen than normal, I'm assuming that's for type 2's as well (My mistake maybe?) and the meal I have post-workout is 1:1 grams of protein:carbs. Then I finish the day with a number like 120 to 130. So no carbs leading up to the routine, carbs midroutine and healthy carbs post-workout. Is this a bad thing for type 2's? What should I look for if I'm trying to figure out the optimal approach to getting through the workout without crashing while staying healthy? Are even short spikes in BG bad when they are up around 160-180?

 

I'll try adding more carbs pre-workout and see how I feel post-workout...hopefully I can get these under control again.

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jwags

Balancing workouts and bgs can be a tricky thing sometimes. I find even with normal exercise my bgs tend to spike because of stress hormones my body produces. If you are drinking a glucose drink midway this may intensify the bg spike. I would suggest you bring your meter to the gym and testat different points before, during and after exercise. I find the 45 minute mark is usually when I tend to spike the highest. Sometimes changing your workout around a little or adding some cool down periods may let your bgs fall to normal.

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oblivious

The thing about dextrose, is that it`s a monosaccharide with a glycemic index of 100. So basically it`s pure glucose, and that will spike your BG like MAD.

Being a T2, you should avoid these very high GI foods as they can contribute to worsen your diabetes.

Some of the reason why we get this illness, is thought to partially be by massive BG spikes followed by equally massive insulin spikes.

This will stress your pancreas and the islets of langerhans, specially if you are already a T2 you are already reduced, and your body is already in a state where your insulin receptors might refuse some of the insulin trying bring energy in to the muscle.

The result of this is an uncontrolled BG value and might lead to a more severe state of T2.

 

Now, being a exercise fanatic and unmedicated T2 myself, I know that in periods of HIIT or intensive crossfit training, my body handles glucose a lot better.

If I eat fast carbs after a work out like that, my body goes to normal levels pretty quick.

But, another factor is, a high BG spike that produces a high insulin spike, will sometimes result in low BG after the insulin has been raging in your body.

So, in my experience, having a slow carb meal about 2 hours before work out, a protein shake made with milk after work out, followed by a meal within another hour with slow carbs.

For me, this will keep my BG steady through the day and I can still get my carbs in.

 

In short summary, very high GI carbs will spike BG and can result in BG drop.

So keep all your carbs as slow as possible to have steady BG through the day, and only use a little bit of medium high to high GI carb source right after training.

Hope this helps.

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synonymous

Sorry...I'm still a bit confused (Forgive the noobishness, please). It seems that, pre-holiday, my body was handling the dextrose well since pre-workout my BG would be 'normal', 1 hour post workout my BG would be on the lower end of the scale and after protein/carb dinner (1:1 ratio) I would have stable BG levels throughout the day. Is it possible that the intensity of the exercise allows for my body to handle the dextrose better? Or is this because I have so much insulin going through me that 1 hour or so post-workout my insulin levels are high and using up all that BG in my body that my levels are going low?

 

Today, I had a 'normal day'. I had a protein/fat breakfast, protein shake on the way to the gym, intense leg day, was 100 post-workout (I still had my dextrose drink). Had a 1:1 ratio protein carb jelly pack, I'm guessing that the carb portion was not low GI...I can't read the label and was in a rush. 2 hours later, at home, I was 88. Had a 1:1 protein/carb meal (Chicken, brown rice, green veggies). 2 hours later I'm at 110. Today is the first day that my numbers have looked this way since my holidays. Hope that it continues to look this way. Still need to learn what is and isn't good as far as BG and what to look out for.

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Caravaggio

I live in Tokyo. First, like in other countries, type 1 diabetes is not common here. There are far far more Type 2 diabetics (than type 1) in Japan. Second, I don't know if the statement "there isn't much information about diabetes" is accurate. Do you read Japanese? There may not be as much info as you would like, but diabetes is a major concern here and I've seen info. While most people are not well-versed, those that I've met know that there are at least type 1 and type 2. Third, the Japanese diabetics I've met (not that there are many) avoid carbs, and those that decide to eat rice, do not seem to overindulge.

 

But what you wrote about the national health no covering test strips is accurate. I've written about it in my blog, and I'm trying to convince my endo to help change the treatment protocol. It's such a shame that like in the US and other Western countries, self-testing is undervalued and not given enough credit.

 

Regarding your workout regimen, have you tried not having that 50 grams of carb drink, reducing the intensity of your workout, and slowly increasing that intensity to get your body used to the work out? Most people who have 50 grams of carbs at one time will have high BG, so that may explain why you are hitting 190-200, although it doesn't help that you start with a high BG. Also, how much carbs do you eat before workout? That may explain why your BG is at 150-160 before you work out.

 

By the way, where are you in Japan?

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synonymous

Hey Caravaggio,

 

I'm in the Kansai region near Kobe. Was in Osaka for 10 years before that.

 

I've only met 1 person who has diabetes and his is type 2. He's a very fit man in his 50's that you wouldn't think is diabetic but all my 'knowledge' comes from him. The only carb that he's cut from his diet is alcohol. He's been off the alcohol for a long long time and still eats rice, pasta and all that tasty stuff we should be limiting. He says that simply eliminating alcohol and eating 'mostly' healthy throughout the day has kept his numbers in check. He says for him it's also a seasonal thing, his numbers going up in winter and coming back down in spring.

 

Due to gym related injuries and other health check-ups, I've often sat with doctors to talk about how to manage my numbers (Not just BG numbers, all of them). It seems that when one number is too high or low, the rest are fine. Then I get that one number in check and something else falls out of line. An example being that my triglycerides were on the high end. I ended up increasing my gym activities and lowering my carb intake and replacing it with healthy protein/fat. Then I saw them go down into a nice range but my HDL cholesterol went down below normal (It was always on the high end). I played this numbers game for years (At which time I had no BG problems). My doctor said "You're never going to have all your numbers in that nice zone, some numbers are just going to be up or down. Relax." But now, when it comes to my BG numbers, every doctor seems to have a different approach and different ideas as to what is right and wrong. No 2 doctors agree to a specific protocol. I don't read Japanese to a level where I can pick up leaflets or anything and start reading, I rely entirely on conversations with different doctors. I've had "Don't worry, just eat more at breakfast and less at dinner." to "Have you considered taking medication to increase insulin sensitivity." all in the same month.

 

As for my pre-workout numbers and carb intake: If I exercise in the morning or early afternoon, the only carbs I have are in the form of green veggies. The rest if protein/fat. I don't have a carb meal until after my routine. If I workout in the late afternoon or evening, my first carb meal will be at lunch. That's usually about 150 grams of brown rice (Average of about 30-40 grams of carbs). Brown rice and sweet potatoes are my main source of high carb foods. 3 hours pre-workout I have no fat/carbs, only protein. My starting numbers in recent weeks has been high, but I have a feeling that was due to my lack of proper monitoring and adherence to proper diet. Yesterday was a good day as far as my numbers are concerned. I had an intense leg training day and I'm having a hard time walking around...leg days are great days.

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