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am1977

Anyone watch Dateline Tonight?

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am1977

I'm actually still very, VERY upset :bawling: about the story they reported on the little girl, Ariel. To refresh your memories, this was the little girl with Type 1 Diabetes that died after being in a state of DKA. Her mother was actually put on trial for murder of her child.

 

Now, I don't know if I would call it murder, but I was totally enraged :mad: at what happened to this little girl. And I strongly believe that her parents should be held responsible. Ariel's blood sugar readings were off the charts many, many times...they even noted that her A1c was over 15 at least twice! :eek: Insurance payments showed that insulin was only purchased twice over a year period. There's no way in heck that little insulin can sustain that child's health... Also, her mom had lost her daughter's glucometer at times in the past. Not to mention, that it seems like her mother didn't want to learn or try to learn about her daughter's condition. According to her, she felt like she knew what she needed to know about her child's health. Obviously, this was not the case :( .

 

Then what was even more appauling was that it seemed like the defense almost put the blame on the child. They said Ariel cheated, didn't follow her diet, and ate junk food. Well, yes, children AND adults don't always make the best food choices. However, if Ariel did that periodically, her mother should have still been there to test her and give her insulin to cover those things. I don't think that happened. As for the purchasing of insulin, her mother claims that there was only two insurance payments towards insulin, b/c she paid it out of pocket and she stockpiled insulin. I know this can be done, but sounds like bullshoot if you ask me. They only found 4 vials of insulin at their home and two were opened. It wasn't mentioned that the child needs two types of insulin, long acting and short acting...and who knows what types of insulin these were. It's hardly a stock pile. :thumpdown

 

I am stunned and saddened by this whole story :sad:. This girl shouldn't have had to die. How could her parents be so neglectful? It just blows my mind how irresponsible and uncaring people can be to their own family! That's, actually, a huge understatement.

 

In her trial, Ariel's mom was found guilty of 2nd degree murder. However, her verdict was overturned and she was issued a new trial...which I don't quite understand :confused:. In my opinion, this mother should be behind bars for the rest of her life. I know that, sadly, won't bring Ariel back, but I think she should still be held accountable for her death. That goes for the father, too. Yes, they were divorced, but he should have been aware of the situation and should have taken action.

 

I'm just very, very emotional right now after seeing this story. I'm literally bawling :bawling: at the moment. I just hope little Ariel is at peace now and that this type of thing doesn't happen again to any other child.

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Cinnabon

Am thank you for sharing that. I cannot believe I missed that. Sounds very interesting, is there any chance if it plays again?

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lgvincent

Yes, I saw the program, too. I don't know what to think. I know a nurse testified that Ariel had an HbA1c of 15 about 18 months before she died and it was 16.1 when she was admitted to the hospital before she died. Clearly, something is not right here but I would have to wonder why it wasn't higher if she wasn't getting insulin. Maybe she was simply not getting enough, rather than none at all. As I recall, of the three meters in the house, only one had had any glucose readings and it only had 2 of them, one taken about a week before she went to the hospital and one the day she entered. Again, it looks like the parents were not keeping a check on this but I have to admit that until about 1983, I had never checked my blood sugar and I didn't have such high sugars.

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someone

Yep, I saw it. The mother should definately be charged with 1st degree murder. That is just sad that she could let her a1c get to 15 and say she did try her best. 15 is an average of a blood glucose of 500 mg/dL. That is rediculous. Even if the little girl did "cheat" like the defense said, how could her mother pay no attention to that?

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JediSkipdogg

I'm still childless in my life but I guess from my line of work I don't see fully how this is the parent's fault and how they could be charged with it. If your 14 year old son steals a car on a Friday night is it the dad's fault that he didn't tell the son not to steal that car? Heck no. Now if the child blatantly told the mother she wasn't going to check her blood or give a shot and the mother did nothing, then I could see some fault in that. Maybe the mother was also misinformed on how she should have controlled her daugher's diabetes. We all know that from this forum that doctors tell patients hundreds of different treatment styles and some of them surprise me on how the person doesn't have complications.

 

I guess I'm just rambling on and maybe if I saw the piece I'd know a little more about it. But I'd also like to know more about the family relationship and what kind of child the daughter really was. I see parents at our Police Dept. all the time asking us where they can turn their 10-15 year old child into 2020 at (2020 is juvenile jail, and parents can voluntarily sign a kid into it) because they have given up hope on trying to correct the behavior problems of the child.

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someone
I'm still childless in my life but I guess from my line of work I don't see fully how this is the parent's fault and how they could be charged with it. If your 14 year old son steals a car on a Friday night is it the dad's fault that he didn't tell the son not to steal that car? Heck no. Now if the child blatantly told the mother she wasn't going to check her blood or give a shot and the mother did nothing, then I could see some fault in that. Maybe the mother was also misinformed on how she should have controlled her daugher's diabetes. We all know that from this forum that doctors tell patients hundreds of different treatment styles and some of them surprise me on how the person doesn't have complications.

 

I guess I'm just rambling on and maybe if I saw the piece I'd know a little more about it. But I'd also like to know more about the family relationship and what kind of child the daughter really was. I see parents at our Police Dept. all the time asking us where they can turn their 10-15 year old child into 2020 at (2020 is juvenile jail, and parents can voluntarily sign a kid into it) because they have given up hope on trying to correct the behavior problems of the child.

 

You really need to see the show, or read the entire transcript posted by Cinnabon. It would take a lot of candy bars and no insulin to get to 500. I mean, these days it is people in the third world that die from diabetes. It is proposterous for an 11 year old to die from diabetes. How can you say it is the child's fault? The insurance reported that only 2 viles of insulin were purchased that year by the mom, however, the defense argues that she stockpiled insulin that was purchased over the counter. Who in the world is stupid enough to buy insulin over the counter when they have insurance!? It makes no sense. Anyways, I could go for 10 pages with this, so I'll just stop here.

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Tony

I guess I'm just rambling on and maybe if I saw the piece I'd know a little more about it.

You should watch the piece.

 

I didn't see the show on date line however, I do remember when this happen and that is the child was very sick and needed her insulin while the Mom was on sitting down watching TV having a couple beers.

 

You think any mother in her right mind will let her child go six months to a year having a hab1c of 15?

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liz32

I watched the show and it was truely sad. I know kids cheat...heck, I cheat, but not to that extent and at age 11, she's not responsible for it all on her own. My kids don't have diabetes and I still know pretty much everything they eat. It's so sad and yet there are parents out there who don't care one lick about thier kids. I think the woman should be charged! Then number of meters you own means nothing if you never use them...and obviously the mother didn't. they end the show with the mother brushing off her daughters head stone saying she hopes one day to clear her name...oh, please! She cared more about her daughter after she was dead then she did when she was alive!

Liz

oh, and my first a1c was 16.1 and I was sick on the couch barely able to move! You tell me that a mother woulnd't realize that she was sick?

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am1977
Am thank you for sharing that. I cannot believe I missed that. Sounds very interesting, is there any chance if it plays again?

 

 

Yeah, it was interesting, but it was even more so heartbreaking :(. I couldn't stop sobbing :bawling: after I saw the report. It's just such a tragedy.

 

As for the murder charge...that I don't know about. I don't think she really wanted her daughter to die and she didn't plan to kill her daughter. However, saying that, she should have known enough about Ariel's condition to take care of her. In other words, she didn't do anything to prevent this from happening.

 

I also agree :dito: that the Mom seemed to care more once her daughter had already passed away. Where was she when her daughter needed her sugar checked? Or when Ariel was having averages of 500 or higher? Too busy or what? :confused:

 

Yeah, I don't see how her Mom didn't know that something was wrong. Even if she thought that it was the flu, diabetics need immediate medical attention in that circumstance. Ariel was very sicky and I'm sure it was obvious in her appearance. The nurse at the clinic she finally was brought too even said this...how her eyes were all sunken. It seems like her mom chose not to see these things and, tragically, it caused her to lose her child and even more tragically, for Ariel to lose her life.

 

In my opinion, I think the parents should be charged with something...whether it's criminal neglect, or what have you. I think she and Ariel's father need to be held responsible.

 

It probably will replay at some point in the future...but I'm not sure. Thanks, Cinn, for posting the transcript. :smile:

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cherokee_psh

Not to change the focus.....but..

 

With an A1C of 15 on at least 2 occassions should have alerted her medical team that someone either was not following the advice/plan or just plain did not understand what needed to be done. Medical personnel are never shy about calling social services when they suspect abuse. Should this have been any different? I know hospice came to my parents home when Dad was first diagnosed (his readings were 400+). Shouldn't some services through the state, county, city, or school been available to assist this situation?

 

I personally think this situation is more broken then charging only the parent reflects.

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Penny
Not to change the focus.....but..

 

With an A1C of 15 on at least 2 occassions should have alerted her medical team that someone either was not following the advice/plan or just plain did not understand what needed to be done. Medical personnel are never shy about calling social services when they suspect abuse. Should this have been any different? I know hospice came to my parents home when Dad was first diagnosed (his readings were 400+). Shouldn't some services through the state, county, city, or school been available to assist this situation?

 

I personally think this situation is more broken then charging only the parent reflects.

My doctor will not renew my prescriptions if I do not see him every 3 months, how did this woman get insulin "over the counter" without one? Wouldn't the child's doctor have needed to see her and realized there was a problem? There seems to be more to this than we are seeing.

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JediSkipdogg
My doctor will not renew my prescriptions if I do not see him every 3 months, how did this woman get insulin "over the counter" without one? Wouldn't the child's doctor have needed to see her and realized there was a problem? There seems to be more to this than we are seeing.

 

That's where I'm going with this. I think it's more fault than just the parents and they shouldn't be charged with the full blame. But we would need to know more to the story to find out.

 

If she was diagnosed with a 15+ A1C woudln't the doctor want her back in 30 days to check her up and do another A1C? It may not drop to normal in 30 days, but it would be alot lower. Did the doctor even try to get her back and the parent/daughter refuse? If they refused, was child protective services contacted?

 

To me there are just alot of empty questions I have on this before I think the full blame should be put on the parents. That I see is partially why they only charged her with 2nd degree murder. 1st degree would actually mean she planned on doing it, whereas 2nd degree is it happened by the person had some control to stop it. If anything, the mother should only be charged with child neglect in my eyes. But that's just me.

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someone
That's where I'm going with this. I think it's more fault than just the parents and they shouldn't be charged with the full blame. But we would need to know more to the story to find out.

 

If she was diagnosed with a 15+ A1C woudln't the doctor want her back in 30 days to check her up and do another A1C? It may not drop to normal in 30 days, but it would be alot lower. Did the doctor even try to get her back and the parent/daughter refuse? If they refused, was child protective services contacted?

 

To me there are just alot of empty questions I have on this before I think the full blame should be put on the parents. That I see is partially why they only charged her with 2nd degree murder. 1st degree would actually mean she planned on doing it, whereas 2nd degree is it happened by the person had some control to stop it. If anything, the mother should only be charged with child neglect in my eyes. But that's just me.

 

I am not sure a prescription is required to buy insulin unless you want the insurance to pay. But yes, I thought about the same thing. What was the hospital thinking?

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rzrbks
What was the hospital thinking?

 

All they can do is turn the case over Child Welfare.

 

Since there have been HUMOUNGOUS cuts in social services in the last 5 years.........well, people get lost in the system if you haven't enough peole to do the job, much less, do the job corrtectly.

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Penny
I am not sure a prescription is required to buy insulin unless you want the insurance to pay. But yes, I thought about the same thing. What was the hospital thinking?

 

Insulin is a drug, you can take too much of it, I think. You couldn't go to the drugstore without a prescription and get a vial of insulin, at least not at any of the drugstores around here. I still don't understand about the "over the counter" thing.

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Penny
The only insulin the requires a prescription is the fast acting, Humalog and novolog.

 

This is good to know. If I should lose a vial of Lantus, or forget one while away from home, I can just go to a drugstore and buy one? This is always one of my big worries.

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lgvincent
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I've never had a problem buying regular or NPH without a prescription. The only one I've ever had to get a prescription for (so far) is the Humalog, like Tony said.

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Tony
This is good to know. If I should lose a vial of Lantus, or forget one while away from home, I can just go to a drugstore and buy one? This is always one of my big worries.

Oh.. I forgot about Lantus, I think you may need a prescription for it.

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alilpita

I'm with you on this one. My husband and I both watched it and when they were in court and they said her A1C was 16, I was enraged. My husband asked what all that fury meant. I told him it meant they these so called parents weren't at all taking care of her. This father, if that's what you'd call him is JUST as GUILTY as the mother.

My heart broke for this little girl, you know darnned well this girl was sick long before this and was, drinking and eatting everything in sight, she couldn't help it. With blood sugars that high she had an insatiable appetite I'm sure of that!!!

God, I hated that woman so much and the man just as much when I saw him but everytime I saw the little girl Ariel on those video tapes they were showing off and on I cried like a baby. This girl was sick long before she threw up the day (so she says) the mother took her to the hospital. This whole thing just made me want to be sick

This poor lovely little child never even had a chance. It would appear that when the marriage fell apart the mother blamed Ariel. That's just my observation of it though. God may she burn in heck for what she did to that poor little Angel. And dear old dad :mad: says she looked pale the last he saw her. Oh my God how could they have not know how sick she was this type of thing doesn't happen overnight, and then to have the nerve to say she didn't use her insurance to buy the insulin. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

God, this really got my goat! Why would someone with insurance pay full price for insulin???????? OMG, this show just have me wrecked for the night, I soooo know how you felt AM! May this $##@*(& burn in heck for what she's done, and this attorney, I was yelling at him last night

By the way NPH and Regular insulins you can just buy over the counter. Not Lantus, still too new I think that's why. Humalog you need a script too. This is stupid too cause no one who doesn't need it is going to take it and what are you going to get addicted to it. Guess it's just the drug companies way of protecting their product and making money.

This on the other hand is different than an older teen stealing a car. Ariel was very young when I was her age my mother always knew where I was and what my sugars were too. It seems that when the high sugars were addressed by the diatician , the mother told her she didn't need anyone telling her what to do with her child. That she knew what she was doing with her diabetes and knew how to control it. This young girl who in my book was still a baby, her mother should have known she was more than just a little bit sick and to think it was the flu?? I don't get it as I got diabetes when I was 12 yrs old and Ariel was even younger and had it for some time, there would have been multiple signs she was getting sicker. Especially with an A1C of 16, unheard of, I get chewed out at 9. My gosh that means her sugars were averaging 500+ she had to be sick all the time and just feeling really bad. Juvenile diabetes is a little different and should ahve been really noticable. I was away at summer camp and called my parents to tell them I wanted to come home early, they couldn't understand why, they came and got me after a consellor told them I was sleep and drinking alot. The minute we got home my father told me to get a bath and get changed that I was going to the Drs to get checked out. When I got undressed, my Mom said he knew something was wrong because my ribs and shoulder blades were really stuck out and I was skinnier than he'd ever seen me in only a weeks time. I went to the Dr's, don't remember what he said, just remember going in the door and the pjhone was ringing telling Mom and Dad to get me to the hospital stat! They said my sugar was 425 and that in 24 more hrs I probably would have been in a coma.

Had I not been at camp they would have know sooner, but I remember really feeling sick and never getting enough to drink, they said I was severely dehydrated. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks Mind you this was 31 years ago but the symtoms haven't changed with high sugars.

Sorry for rambling , but this story really got to me.

The parents should have done something, the school should have noticed something also. I don't know, it's just so very sad.

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am1977
I'm with you on this one. My husband and I both watched it and when they were in court and they said her A1C was 16, I was enraged. My husband asked what all that fury meant. I told him it meant they these so called parents weren't at all taking care of her. This father, if that's what you'd call him is JUST as GUILTY as the mother.

My heart broke for this little girl, you know darnned well this girl was sick long before this and was, drinking and eatting everything in sight, she couldn't help it. With blood sugars that high she had an insatiable appetite I'm sure of that!!!

God, I hated that woman so much and the man just as much when I saw him but everytime I saw the little girl Ariel on those video tapes they were showing off and on I cried like a baby. This girl was sick long before she threw up the day (so she says) the mother took her to the hospital. This whole thing just made me want to be sick

This poor lovely little child never even had a chance. It would appear that when the marriage fell apart the mother blamed Ariel. That's just my observation of it though. God may she burn in heck for what she did to that poor little Angel. And dear old dad :mad: says she looked pale the last he saw her. Oh my God how could they have not know how sick she was this type of thing doesn't happen overnight, and then to have the nerve to say she didn't use her insurance to buy the insulin. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

God, this really got my goat! Why would someone with insurance pay full price for insulin???????? OMG, this show just have me wrecked for the night, I soooo know how you felt AM! May this $##@*(& burn in heck for what she's done, and this attorney, I was yelling at him last night

By the way NPH and Regular insulins you can just buy over the counter. Not Lantus, still too new I think that's why. Humalog you need a script too. This is stupid too cause no one who doesn't need it is going to take it and what are you going to get addicted to it. Guess it's just the drug companies way of protecting their product and making money.

This on the other hand is different than an older teen stealing a car. Ariel was very young when I was her age my mother always knew where I was and what my sugars were too. It seems that when the high sugars were addressed by the diatician , the mother told her she didn't need anyone telling her what to do with her child. That she knew what she was doing with her diabetes and knew how to control it. This young girl who in my book was still a baby, her mother should have known she was more than just a little bit sick and to think it was the flu?? I don't get it as I got diabetes when I was 12 yrs old and Ariel was even younger and had it for some time, there would have been multiple signs she was getting sicker. Especially with an A1C of 16, unheard of, I get chewed out at 9. My gosh that means her sugars were averaging 500+ she had to be sick all the time and just feeling really bad. Juvenile diabetes is a little different and should ahve been really noticable. I was away at summer camp and called my parents to tell them I wanted to come home early, they couldn't understand why, they came and got me after a consellor told them I was sleep and drinking alot. The minute we got home my father told me to get a bath and get changed that I was going to the Drs to get checked out. When I got undressed, my Mom said he knew something was wrong because my ribs and shoulder blades were really stuck out and I was skinnier than he'd ever seen me in only a weeks time. I went to the Dr's, don't remember what he said, just remember going in the door and the pjhone was ringing telling Mom and Dad to get me to the hospital stat! They said my sugar was 425 and that in 24 more hrs I probably would have been in a coma.

Had I not been at camp they would have know sooner, but I remember really feeling sick and never getting enough to drink, they said I was severely dehydrated. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks Mind you this was 31 years ago but the symtoms haven't changed with high sugars.

Sorry for rambling , but this story really got to me.

The parents should have done something, the school should have noticed something also. I don't know, it's just so very sad.

 

I think your reaction is totally natural...so don't apologize. This story really bothered me tremendously and it took a while for me to really calm myself down and compose myself. It's a tragic death :(

 

This little girl didn't have to die. Her death could have been prevented if her Mother and Father had taken responsibility, shown some love and care for their child, and acted like parents. Sadly, I think they chose to let Ariel fend for herself and, at that age, she lacks the maturity to make the right choices. Ariel was a child-you can't put total responsibility in her hands. Parents need to be there to protect and make sure their children are doing the right thing- whether the child protests or not. Sure, I don't want to inject myself of prick my fingers every day, but I know the consequences. I don't know if a child Ariel's age would fully understand that.

 

I agree that the mother's excuses for why Ariel was sick sound like nothing but lies. She remembers how Ariel was just before diagnosis, I'm sure that that week before she died, she was having symptoms and acting similar to pre-diagnosis. To say that she thought Ariel had the flu, sorry, lady, but I think you'd have to be stupid to buy that. Like you said, blood sugars averaging 500 is extremely, extremely high and also extremely dangerous. It would be obvious that there is something going on and that she needed medical attention immediately.

 

It almost seemed like the parents just didn't want to be bothered. They neglected their child and they have to live with that. I hope that this haunts them for the rest of their lives, b/c I don't think they should be able to go about having a normal life when Ariel didn't have the chance to.

 

Just my thoughts.

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someone

You really can't get all emotional about something like this. It happens.. there are very stupid people in this world. What about people in the 3rd word who come up with the disease, I am sure many people in other countries die of this very same thing--now if you are going to get emotional, that is something to get emotional about.

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am1977

Actually, Someone, I think there is plenty enough reason to be upset over this matter. This little girl died rather tragically- yes, I have used that word a lot, but that is what seems to describe what happened. I know there are other serious and sad things that go on in the world. However, saying that, I don't think that takes away or diminishes what happened to this child. So I'm sorry, but I disagree with you.

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