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balada sugara

Victoza?

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balada sugara

Is anybody familiar with this stuff? I've moved on to a new endo who has a rep as something of a mad scientist, and he swears that bolus therapies like Novolog are the root of all evil. So, he's trimmed my Novolog down to 1:12 and I'm on a grand total of 35u of Levemir, one injection per day. So far, I've had to deal with nausea (today was pretty bad) and dry mouth after five days on it, and my BG is back into the 200s and 300s. Last night it hit 393 and I went off the plan and took an administrative dose of Novolog to bring it down, but was only down to 276 in the morning. And yes, I'm eating reasonably, with the exception of 6 ounces of grapes a few days ago.

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ant hill

have you had a GAD65 test?

I think that Victoza stimulates the Pancreas to spill Insulin in the body. But then you have Blood Glucose problems staying high so would the Pancrease cannot produce anymore?

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samuraiguy

I see on the Victoza website it says it can lower BG levels in as little as 2 weeks so it may take some time to get to full potency. The other variable is what do you consider "reasonable" carb consumption? Victoza helps your beta cells produce more insulin as needed, but if you don't have enough beta cells to begin with or you consume more carbs than your beta cells can cover then this may not be a long term solution for you. In any event your endo should not be comfortable with those BG levels and should be working with you on a routine you can stick with, not using you as a lab rat.

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jwags

I think Victoza works great for some and not so great for others. It does not replace Insulin, though. I think the main action of Victoza is losing weight because it does make you nauseous.

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davef

I've been on Victoza for a few years now, never experienced any nausea at all. It can take a week or two before you see results.

 

What dose are you on, often you start on a low introductory dose (I think 0.6mg) and then it's increased every week until you hit the dose that works or max dose of 1.8 (which I'm on).

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balada sugara

1. No on the GAD65 test. I'll need to look that up.

 

2. I understand what it does, and yes, my pancreas is probably fairly well shattered after so many years.

 

3. Total CHO intakes for the past five days: 190.65, 199.75, 140.75, 172, 187.45. And yes, I dislike being treated like a lab rat, one of the reasons that I haven't had a proper endo for years. It seems like they all grew up as intense little monsters with unhealthy fixations for quadrille paper and colored markers.

 

4. Weight control by nausea to me is inhuman. I was in the hospital for 11 days at the end of the summer with other issues, and presented with pretty bad edema. Since then, I've dropped 60 lbs. through rigorous diet without the use of such vile methods.

 

5. So far the endo has been making percentage increases on Levemir and hasn't upped the Victoza to 1.8mg. This morning's preprandial was 185 after 40u of Levemir last night. FWIW my A1c was in the mid 6s last week.

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davef

How long are you on the Victoza? After a week you normally progress to 1.2mg it's increased after that if not getting acceptable BG levels. That said it makes sense that Endo is adjusting one med at a time, however, to me I would have thought he/she would only adjust your basal after you were on "normal" 1.2mg dose of Victoza. How the nausea passes soon.

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balada sugara

How long are you on the Victoza? After a week you normally progress to 1.2mg it's increased after that if not getting acceptable BG levels. That said it makes sense that Endo is adjusting one med at a time, however, to me I would have thought he/she would only adjust your basal after you were on "normal" 1.2mg dose of Victoza. How the nausea passes soon.

 

Today is day seven. He jumped me to 1.2mg on day two. The insane cutback on both basal and bolus insulin was immediate. However, the nausea is still tagging along.

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xMenace

Spent a year on it and it works great. It is an artificial GLP-1 which counteracts glucagon. Victoza controls liver dumping.

 

Nausea lasted about two weeks then diskappeared completely.

 

Victoza is not an insulin replacement. Whatever other meds you take, you have to get BGs into a more normal range, and insulin does that. It's a piece of biology you cannot get around.

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davef

Today is day seven. He jumped me to 1.2mg on day two. The insane cutback on both basal and bolus insulin was immediate. However, the nausea is still tagging along.

Ah, that's probably why you're having the nausea, he jumped you very quickly to the higher dose. Documents from manufacturer specifically say the low 0.6mg dose is to avoid nausea.

 

Why don't you talk to Doc and say you want to follow guide of manufacturer and step back to 0.6mg for a week, and go back to original Basal & Bolus levels. The when you're on 1.2mg start looking at adjust Basal/Bolus rates. To me he seems to be messing about with too many things at once.

 

Are you on an other meds such as metformin? I ask because I was taken off Metformin due to a mix up with prescribing doctor leaving it of script, after about two weeks of coming off it I had to start increasing Basal. For me Victoza alone was not enough to help the basal work. I'm back in Metformin and I'm reducing my Basal gradually. Down to 40u from 50u.

 

I'd think talking to your Doc is in order, he works for you, if what he's recommended isn't working, then you need him to work with you to make changes to get things were you're comfortable. All too often I think we all expect overnight changes/improvements, where a gradual improvement is often better for us.

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balada sugara

Just the IM meds. I haven't done oral agents for diabetes in years. I agree on your point about the doc, but he doesn't seem to be the type to want to deal with a semi-educated layman. I just don't feel like going back on the quest for an endo who isn't a problem child.

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ant hill

Balada, If it be too much to ask about your weight. Are you heavy?? Also are you thirsty too? Lathergic?

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balada sugara

Balada, If it be too much to ask about your weight. Are you heavy?? Also are you thirsty too? Lathergic?

 

5'11", 270 lbs, about 50 lbs north of "pleasingly plump" for my body type and musculature. Thirst has always been an issue with the diabetes, but I'm limited to 1.5L liquid intake per day. Whatever lethargy I'm feeling right now I attribute to low caloric intake because of the endo's dietary demands and those placed upon me by other temporary medical issues.

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ant hill

OK, I am still curios about the GAD65 though. Anyway, The best thing is that you are here asking questions as that's better than ignoring this disease!!!

What would your day like? Would you be phyisiclly be off the chair, Housework E.T.C.

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davef

Just the IM meds. I haven't done oral agents for diabetes in years. I agree on your point about the doc, but he doesn't seem to be the type to want to deal with a semi-educated layman. I just don't feel like going back on the quest for an endo who isn't a problem child.

 

As I see it, you've got a few choices if you don't want to talk to/challenge your Doctor:

 

1. Follow his instructions and suffer the side-effects, high blood sugars until things settle down, that of course assumes that your Doctores approach will eventually work in lower BG and that nausea will abate. I would think the nausea will eventually abate as your body becomes used to the Victoza.

 

2. Partially follow his instructions, in that you take the meds he has prescribed but adjust the doses based on the manufacturers instructions/leaflets and your knowledge until you find what works. Please note I am not advising you to do that, I'm not a doctor.

 

I understand it can be a pain finding a Doctor you can work with, but if you already feel you've found a Doctor you can't talk to and discuss things, then maybe you need to consider if are you not putting off the inevitable and in the meantime you're in a position where you're not feeling well and your BG's are running high.

 

You say that the Doc doesn't seem to be the type who wants to deal with an a semi-educated layman (I prefer patient with knowledge & experience), could it be that you are wrong and that he's used to dealing with patients who haven't taken time to educate themselves and he doesn't actually know that you have some knowledge & experience that you want to bring to the team? Another approach that might work with the Endo, is to play a little stupid, call him up or see him, tell him you're miserable from feeling so sick from the victoza & high BGs. Then ask if maybe you got something wrong, did you start on too high a dose, would a lower dose help and maybe you misunderstood about changing Basal/Bolus.

 

Just ideas, I hope you find a method to get things on track & working for you.

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Hoping4Cure

I wandered into this thread curious to see if any other type 1s have taken it. I have, for about six months, then I stopped due to the headaches, not the nausea, despite being on the 1.8 dose (by my own volition) after about a week which is really fast.

 

Eventually I lowered myself down to 1.2 and the latest study on type 1s on this medicine show that it works and works well (like 30-50% reduction in daily insulin intake, better A1Cs and weight loss). The weight loss isn't due to the nausea, really, that's a side effect that you may or may not have. 

 

Dude, (or dudette?) just lower your own darn meds and increase it as per the suggestions on the label. Your doc screwed up by telling you to up your dose from 0.6 to 1.2 so quickly. The first couple days after starting the medicine I was knocked out and violently throwing up, lethargic and feeling like I was underwater. Then it passed. Then after going up to 1.2 then 1.8, after a while I got so bloody fed up of the constant low-grade headache that I stopped. But I'm going to go back on it, at 0.6 and then up to maybe 0.9 per day. The optimum dose is 1.2 for type 1s according to the latest study.

 

And no, losing weight by being nauseous is not the point of this medicine. It makes you digest food slower so you ARE fuller, longer. You literally don't digest as fast. That's what makes you lose weight, as well as the reduction in appetite. Nausea is an unfortunate side effect but only some people get it, and even if you do, after you stabilize on a given dose it will usually subside. What didn't subside for me were the headaches. However I will say this, at 0.6mg / day after about a week there are barely any side negative effects, only benefits. Maybe finding a sweet spot is something you should take charge of. Doctors are not gods and they do not know everything. Listen to your body, it will tell you what the right dose is.

 

As a type II you should realize that if you lost all your weight you could cure yourself. I would be cured a long time ago if I had type 2 instead of type 1 so consider yourself lucky, at least you do have a way out even if you are unwilling or unable to achieve a low enough body mass that would allow it.

 

Note that I am NOT saying that would be easy. Losing weight can be tremendously difficult. Start by going low carb high fat maybe, there are lots of success stories on this website with that diet. 

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FormerNurse

Victoza is a GLP-1 hormone replacement. If you don't have diabetes, you have this hormone in your gut and it tells your pancreas to produce insulin after you eat. This hormone is so important because it accounts for up to 70% of how your blood sugar is regulated after you eat. If you have diabetes, you either don't make enough of this hormone, or your body is resistant to what you make. So it's important to have this hormone back in your body. And it's the first thing the Endocrinology Association (AACE guidelines) recommends after Metformin. But that's not all it does. Victoza slows down your stomach emptying so you feel full longer. That's why when you first start taking it you can help with the nausea by not overeating. Victoza also delays glucagon production in the liver which helps with those overnight highs. It also works in the brain to increase satiety so you feel like you just don't need to eat as much. That's mostly where the weight loss comes from - not the nausea.

 

If your doctor keeps adding on pill after pill, it may be that your doctor is resistant to needles. :) This shouldn't be a barrier at all since the needles are so tiny now and you rarely feel it. The dose is .6mg for one week, then 1.2. If you need more after a month you can increase to the 1.8. Patience is certainly key when starting any new medication, however, the medical community has been too patient and laid back when it comes to pushing people to get into better control sooner. If you are not improved in 3 months, it's time to try something else.

 

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art

You waited until you hit 393 to Bolus?

 

At 200 I would have been calling the doc and telling him his plan isn't working and start shoving insulin into myself to get to a reasonable number.

 

Victoza works for a lot people but not everybody. Didn't work for me.

 

Art

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Carole Dearborn

I had been on Victoza for a short time but had heard some thing about it affecting kidneys or liver (don't remember) so I asked to be switched. Has anyone here heard that or experienced it?

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ronmesnard

Try the pancreas it may cause pancreatitis.  This maybe because it pushes the pancreas to make more insulin. I believe the pancreatitis is reversible if you stop the meds so it isn't as bad as kidneys or liver damage.   It is also rare.

 

 Common side effects of Victoza include headache, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, upset stomach, loss of appetite, diarrhea, constipation, cold symptoms (stuffy nose, sneezing, sinus pain, sore throat), back pain, tired feeling, skin rash, or redness or rash where the medicine was injected.

 

 

 

It stimulates more insulin production and reduces glucagon production like Januvia but does so differently.  You are not having a reaction to this as you did with the other.  While the class of drugs Januvia is in are considered weak The class of drug Victoza is strong.  The drawback is it must be injected.  The big plus for either drug is there is little risk of hypoglycemia.  

 

 

 

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davef

I've been on Victoza for 3+ years, I was switched to it from Januvia, never had a problem on it. I had horrible side effects on Januvia & none on Victoza. If you're worried talk to the doctor who prescribed it. Most drugs have potential side effects so Victoza is no different.

 

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