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oblivious

Reduce BG without insulin?

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oblivious

Just to keep this short and simple, I am waiting for my GP appointment on friday to take action for my very very low insulin production and get my GP to accept that I am not type 2 and in reality a type 1.

 

Meanwhile I have been walking around for almost two months with very high BG, and the last week I can`t seem to get it below 14 mmol/l without fasting.

I am eating low enough carb to be in KETO and I am taking 2500mg metformin a day (wich seems to do absolutely nothing).

I try to keep active but I am just so tired so it`s hard.. I am used to working out 5 times a week and walking 6-7 miles each day, but I just don`t have the energy atm.

 

To my knowledge, eliminating carbs and enducing some form of activity is the only way of reducing BG (except fasting) if you don`t have meds (that work).

But just to make sure while I wait for my appointment.. is there anything I can do to get my numbers down..?

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Uff Da

I know of nothing else.  Don't worry too much about not being able to exercise as much as you like.  It is recommended that one not do heavy exercise when the BG is over about 250 mg/dl (139 mmol/l) anyway.  Sometimes heavy exercise will cause the BG to increase temporarily.

 

I didn't know that when I was first diagnosed and my doctor put me on a diet with way too many carbs.  My BG shot up to 548.  I tried to get it down by walking around the house and up and down the stairs repeatedly.  I finally ended up going to the emergency room.  The nurse scolded me for exercising with BG that high.  She said I could have had a heart attack.

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jwags

Some type 2's can use diet and exercise alone but if you are LADA you will eventually need insulin. I would not fight using insulin. Many Type 2's also have low c-peptide scores and they must go on insulin.

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davef

I know it's counter intuitive, but sometimes as a T2, I would need to eat some carbs to stop BG rising. This would mostly be the morning.

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oblivious

Some type 2's can use diet and exercise alone but if you are LADA you will eventually need insulin. I would not fight using insulin. Many Type 2's also have low c-peptide scores and they must go on insulin.

 

I think I am LADA and hope my doc will help me with insulin treatment after my appointment.

I have done the c-pep test before and since it was low my doc meant I had production and not a lot resistance to insulin, the only problem is that I had around 8 mmol/l BG so c-pep should have been high if I were a type 2.

Waiting for another test result now and I am going to have a serious talk with my doc about this come friday.

 

I know it's counter intuitive, but sometimes as a T2, I would need to eat some carbs to stop BG rising. This would mostly be the morning.

 

I have noticed this my self, because when I go on a low carb diet my liver will produce the glucose my body needs, and that can often give a bigger spike than if I ate a low glycemic food.

But now it seems to just stay high no matter what I do, I don`t dare eat any high glycemic foods in fear of getting a jumbo spike, but with the low glycemic foods I eat it tends to vary between 14 up to 17 mmol/l.

 

KETOing, exercising and fasting helps, but when I wake up the next morning it`s at 14 ish again.

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funkynassau

It may be time for some meds and perhaps insulin.  If you are doing your best, and it sounds like you are, then you need intervention somehow, likely with meds and/or insulin.  Sometimes you have to hammer on the doctor's desk with your fist to get his attention and get him to prescribe whatever is best for you.  Hang in there!

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miketurco

I was afraid of insulin for a long time. Now that I'm on it, turns out that it's great for me.

 

In fact, many T2's on this site have said the same thing. "I wish I went on insulin earlier" is something I hear a lot.

 

Sure, you can reduce your bg with diet and exercise. The thing is, though, is that if you eat no carbs, or fast, or just have bad luck, your liver will produce sugar for you aplenty. 

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oblivious

I was afraid of insulin for a long time. Now that I'm on it, turns out that it's great for me.

 

In fact, many T2's on this site have said the same thing. "I wish I went on insulin earlier" is something I hear a lot.

 

Sure, you can reduce your bg with diet and exercise. The thing is, though, is that if you eat no carbs, or fast, or just have bad luck, your liver will produce sugar for you aplenty. 

 

After what I am going through now I welcome insulin with open arms.

Never felt so sluggish in my life..

 

The more I read about 1.5 the more I see the show fits. I don`t mind starting with insulin, I adapt very quickly and expect it to make my day easier.

I have learned a lot the past 4 years from documenting everything I eat together with my workouts to see what impacts BG values the most.

Now I am looking forward to using what I have learned together with the help from insulin I probably have been needing the last year.

 

This is a turning point for better times, as long as I can get my GP to get his ass in gear.

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Cora

Hi Oblivious. While I"m not a doc,I"ll add that you sound like a pretty classic T1.5. Slow onset (usually about 6 years) and diet/met/exercise helps at first. Right now all you can really do is keep your carbs down and above all stay hydrated! How soon can you get in to see the doc and how amenable do you think he/she will be to the new diagnosis? Best of luck.

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Haniwitch

Maybe it isn't a matter of getting the numbers down before your appointment, but more like can you go a few days with the high numbers so when you see the doctor on Friday you can test right there and show him how high you get even with everything you've done.  After all, if he doesn't see a high number he probably won't even consider insulin. If I had your doctor I'd be tempted to try to push the numbers even higher so his reaction would be "Oh my god, we have to get you on insulin right away".

 

Seriously, though, I think you're doing all you can short of insulin to get those numbers down.  And don't forget that the stress from worrying about high numbers could also be pushing them higher.  This has been going on for a couple of months; three more days probably won't matter.  What I would do in those three days is document everything I do, everything I eat, when and what medication I take and if you can afford the strips test before and after everything so your doctor can see that nothing works.

 

And if he still hesitates on the insulin it's time to find a doctor that will do what's needed to keep you healthy.

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jwags

Insist on a GAD Antibody test. That will tell you if you are a LADA or not. Also many Type 2's have low c-peptide scores as their diabetes progresses. That is why so many type 2's use insulin. Also have your doctor check your thyroid levels. You could have multiple things going on.

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oblivious

I had high numbers at my last visit aswell s little over 2 weeks ago, he just shrugged it of and told me not to worry, even if it had bern like it for over a month.

But I will try to convince him again, and change my GP if he is still in denial.

 

I got the AGAD as well as c-pep my last visit, so I am waiting for that to.

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davef

Oblivious,

 

You're probably already doing this but if not, I'd recommend that you test as frequently as possible between now and seeing your doctor. If you can track before meal and after meal levels along with what you ate, you then have details and specifics to discuss with your doctor.

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oblivious

Oblivious,

 

You're probably already doing this but if not, I'd recommend that you test as frequently as possible between now and seeing your doctor. If you can track before meal and after meal levels along with what you ate, you then have details and specifics to discuss with your doctor.

 

Good point Davef, I already have alot of this documented that I can bring up in my meeting with the GP.

That with the previous c-pep test result and most likely the most resent test results will be proof enough that I need insulin treatment.

He can also see the developement of my hba1c and my BG test while I am at my regular quarterly checkups, so if he can`t see it now he must be blind.

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jwags

When I was dx'd my bgs were much higher than yours. My HbA1 c was 10.9 and My fasting was in the mid. 200's. My after meal bgs were in the 300-400 range range. It took 3-4 years of tons of testing to figure out patterns with my bg. I take 3x850 of Metformin and I time it to coincide with my liver dumps. So I take a dose before bed, another at 4-5 am and the last one aroun 4-5 pm. When my bgs start to rise I first check the carbs I am eating. It is sometimes a tricky balance of carbs, fats and proteins. For me not eating creates higher bgs than eating. So timing of meals and snacks is important. Exercise also plays a huge role. I lost a lot of muscle my first few years of diabetes, most of it from statins. The lack of muscles raised my IR and my bgs. I am now rebuilding my muscles with the help of exercise and Great Lakes Collagen/Gelatin. My bgs are behaving nice,y, now.

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naesatt

I was afraid of insulin for a long time. Now that I'm on it, turns out that it's great for me.

 

In fact, many T2's on this site have said the same thing. "I wish I went on insulin earlier" is something I hear a lot.

 

Sure, you can reduce your bg with diet and exercise. The thing is, though, is that if you eat no carbs, or fast, or just have bad luck, your liver will produce sugar for you aplenty. 

My liver is definitely an enabler...... <_<

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naesatt

When I was dx'd my bgs were much higher than yours. My HbA1 c was 10.9 and My fasting was in the mid. 200's. My after meal bgs were in the 300-400 range range. It took 3-4 years of tons of testing to figure out patterns with my bg. I take 3x850 of Metformin and I time it to coincide with my liver dumps. So I take a dose before bed, another at 4-5 am and the last one aroun 4-5 pm. When my bgs start to rise I first check the carbs I am eating. It is sometimes a tricky balance of carbs, fats and proteins. For me not eating creates higher bgs than eating. So timing of meals and snacks is important. Exercise also plays a huge role. I lost a lot of muscle my first few years of diabetes, most of it from statins. The lack of muscles raised my IR and my bgs. I am now rebuilding my muscles with the help of exercise and Great Lakes Collagen/Gelatin. My bgs are behaving nice,y, now.

It is just mind boggling how much you had to go through to figure out what was going on w/your body jwags....you are an inspiration!

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TommyC1

 I can`t seem to get it below 14 mmol/l without fasting.

I am eating low enough carb to be in KETO and I am taking 2500mg metformin a day (wich seems to do absolutely nothing).

Brother you need insulin.

If your doctor doesn't think so get a real doctor.

 

I was like you when I was dx'd 20 years ago. No DKA so my GP figured I was T2 and put me on glyburide(IIRC).

Lucky for me when my BS never went below 200 (11 mmol) after 2 weeks he put me on insulin.

 

There is NO good reason for your doctor to let you walk around as high as you are for months. No good reason at all.

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oblivious

He finally started speaking with a specialist endo at a polyclinic in our city.

And he now agrees that my c-pep should not be this low. 

Since he started talking with her I have filled up 7-8 tubes of blood to try and find some markers that make sence.

 

He switched my meds from metformin to janumet, tried that for two months and it helped a little bit.. fasting numbers went from 14 - 16, down to 9 - 12.

My A1C was at 8.5, so I am now trying the last medicine before he sends me to the polyclinic to get checked by the specialist.

I have started taking Forxiga togehter with Janumet, and yesterday was the first day with this combo, and my BG was at 7.6 2hr 30min post 200gr beef with bernaise and quinoa.

I don`t know if I can expect the Forxiga to work this fast, but there is some improvement.

 

I got 28 days worth of Forxiga, and my GP seemed very determined now to figure this out. He even talked to me about his new insight in how these meds work and my test results.

It took a while before he woke up, but now he has and it seems we are making some progress, although it is slow progress.

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DeusXM

With those numbers, a low c-peptide and an A1C that's consistently rising, I think really it's time to look at going on insulin.

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NoraWI

I agree! Forxiga works on the kidneys and that is NOT good. Your doctor still has his head in the sand (or elsewhere).

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Uff Da

You had the GAD antibody test back in March.  You never reported the result of that test in this thread.  I assume it must have been negative since the doctor is still treating you with type 2 drugs.  Although GAD 65 is the most common antibody seen in LADA (type 1.5), it isn't the only one.  Were you tested for the other antibodies?

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oblivious

You had the GAD antibody test back in March.  You never reported the result of that test in this thread.  I assume it must have been negative since the doctor is still treating you with type 2 drugs.  Although GAD 65 is the most common antibody seen in LADA (type 1.5), it isn't the only one.  Were you tested for the other antibodies?

 

Yes it was negative, and he has tested me for 3 or 4 other antibodies, all came back negative.

The kicker is that they can`t find any antibodies, but my c-pep is low whilst my BG is high. So my GP and the specialist are a bit confused on what to do, so they want to try type 2 treatments to exclude that I am type 2 since they can`t find any markers for type 1 or 1.5.

 

The Forxiga is actually working very well. The second day I took them I had a fastet morning reading at 6.4, wich is better then anything else for atleast 6 months now, probably a year.

But it`s not so strange since it dumps glucose through the urin, and in my book that is just a work around, not a solution.

After a week I already lost 2lbs, and I have very few to spare, plus I get really thirsty and my muscles tire easily.

So I will go back to my GP, report the findings and probably go to the specialist for further investigation.

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