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leosmith

Low carb implies high LDL for me

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leosmith

I need to confirm this next week, but it appears I'm one of the 1 out of 4 people that gets high LDL from saturated fat. I get gut problems from most grains and legumes. And of course I get high blood sugar from too many carbs, or I wouldn't be here. My LDL was 289 about a month ago. Since then, I've lowered my carbs from 40% to less than 5%, making me eat more fat, a large percentage of which is saturated. Out of laziness I won't go into the reasons why I think my high LDL is caused by saturated fat, but assuming it is, do you have any diet recommendations for me? I prefer not to eat a high protein (more than 150g) diet, so it's hard for me to imagine getting so much fat into my diet from non-animal products.

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Kit

You might look to the vegetable world for fats.  Avocado is brimming full of healthy mono unsaturated fats.  Nuts can also be a good option.

Olives and olive oil as well.

 

I'm sure others may have more ideas.

 

Let us know how your tests come back.  I'm curious and nosy.  :)

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Orlando

Plenty of olive oil on low carbohydrate leafy green vegetable salads. Macadamia nuts are also loaded with monounsaturated fats.  Pecans nuts are also very good as fat bombs.

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jwags

They recommend when you first start a LC diet not to get lipids done until at least 6 months or a year. The reason is that low carb will make your liver purge all the cholesterol , so when they test it is in your blood. I eat about 40-50 carbs a day, 50 grams of protein and about 50 -70 grams of fat. Most of my fat comes from nuts and nut flours, not dairy. I only eat meat once or twice a week and eat vegetarian the rest of the week.

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leosmith

Thanks very much for your excellent suggestions.

I'm already eating plenty of fresh avocado, avocado oil, and olive oil. I think I'm covered in the non-saturated oil department; I guess I'm mainly looking for more high fat vegetable options. I might have to try unsalted olives. 

 

Unfortunately my gut hasn't tolerated nuts well in the past. But if my test results continue to show high cholesterol, I'll give them another try. Maybe I need to do some research to find out which are the least "toxic". Maybe nut flours or nut "milk" won't pose a problem; I'll give them a try too.

 

They recommend when you first start a LC diet not to get lipids done until at least 6 months or a year. The reason is that low carb will make your liver purge all the cholesterol , so when they test it is in your blood.

 

Interesting  - this is new info for me. I was on a high carb diet for about 30 years; 70-80% carbs, or about 500g per day. I dropped to 40%, or 250g per day for about a year. That's when I began eating much more saturated fat, and that's when my LDL went up dramatically. I tested after 3 months, 6 months and 1 year, and numbers were 240, 260 and 290 (more or less). 4 years ago, when I was on the high carb diet, my LDL was maybe 140. So my opinion is that this isn't just a liver purge, but I could be wrong. Maybe my carbs weren't low enough to get the LDL lowering benefit of a low carb diet? I've gone down to 80g carbs per day now, so if my LDL is still high, do you think that I should wait for 6 months and re-test before reducing my saturated fat? I eat about 70g saturated fat/day now.

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Kit

Many of us would still consider 250g carbs a day to be quite high.

I have a vague memory that the benefits of a LCHF diet in regards to cholesterol do require a much lower consumption of carbs, but I am not sure if I am misremembering that or not.

 

I'll see if I can find that reference again at some point today and post a link if I find it.

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jwags

I agree with Kit, LCHF assumes a carb level usually under 75 grams a day. Higher carb plus higher fat equals diaster. My fsvorite high fat veggie dish is loaded cauliflower. it is similar to loaded baked potatoes. You steam some cauliflower and mash it up and add cheese, sour cream, onions and fried bacon. I top with more cheese and bake until hot and bubbly..

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leosmith

Well I hope you guys are right. Unfortunately I'll only have been on my 80g carb diet for about 2 weeks when I get my testing done, so it might not prove anything. Oh well, at least it's another data point. 

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Moonpie

Shuttlebop has a long thread going, with lots of low fat meals, he records his daily intake, I think, in his case, it helped his lipids.

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leosmith

Shuttlebop has a long thread going, with lots of low fat meals, he records his daily intake, I think, in his case, it helped his lipids.

Yeah, I saw that. I would hate to have to resort to a high-carb diet though. Maybe if all else fails :)

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TX_Clint

I've been on a Vlchf diet for years and my cholesterol is the best ever. It doesn't happen quickly but the LDL does come down with consistent lchf diet. Realize also that everyone is different. For me, even your carb intake of 80g would be too much. My daily goal is less than 30g and I usually achieve that without a lot of effort. I just can't get the results I want (good bg control) with a higher level of carbs.

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comedy

Well I hope you guys are right. Unfortunately I'll only have been on my 80g carb diet for about 2 weeks when I get my testing done, so it might not prove anything. Oh well, at least it's another data point. 

Most people find when they start a truly LCHF diet, that at first their LDL goes up. Mine did. But as the particles change from small and dense to large and fluffy, the numbers drop down again. And also, the HDL rises and triglycerides come down a lot. My doctor thinks my HDL and triglycerides are brilliant and is thrilled with my ratios. She's said nothing at all about trying medication to lower cholesterol, in spite of the fact that my total cholesterol is much higher than the upper limit for diabetics.

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jwags

My total cholesterol always comes back flagged because of my very high HDL. All of my ratios are excellent thiugh and C-reactive protein is very low. So you need to look at the total picture not just one number. When I was first dx'd I was on a low fat vegetsrian diet, my Lipids were terrible eating low fat. Once I started 30-40 carbs a day in about a year to 18 months my numbers fell. Even 80 carbs a day may not be low enough to loer lipids.

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leosmith

I've been on a Vlchf diet for years and my cholesterol is the best ever. It doesn't happen quickly but the LDL does come down with consistent lchf diet. Realize also that everyone is different. For me, even your carb intake of 80g would be too much. My daily goal is less than 30g and I usually achieve that without a lot of effort. I just can't get the results I want (good bg control) with a higher level of carbs.

 

 

My total cholesterol always comes back flagged because of my very high HDL. All of my ratios are excellent thiugh and C-reactive protein is very low. So you need to look at the total picture not just one number. When I was first dx'd I was on a low fat vegetsrian diet, my Lipids were terrible eating low fat. Once I started 30-40 carbs a day in about a year to 18 months my numbers fell. Even 80 carbs a day may not be low enough to loer lipids.

Can you guys approximate your saturated vs unsaturated fat? For this last week I averaged 73g saturated vs 98g non.

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comedy

Can you guys approximate your saturated vs unsaturated fat? For this last week I averaged 73g saturated vs 98g non.

Sorry, I don't differentiate (Calorie King Australia doesn't either, and that's what I use). But given that I eat red meat, butter and cream, I'd have to say that the saturated is probably a lot more than the unsaturated.

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kayell

I'm in another group for another health issue. Many there had to deal with high LDL-P and had success with:

 

1. Drastically lowering saturated fats, including the beloved coconut oil. :-(

2. Greatly increasing monounsaturated fats from olive oil and olivers, avocados and avo oil, and nuts 

3. Greatly increasing soluble fiber from vegetables (mass quantities of veg, esp green leafy), flax and hemp seed, and fiber supplements (warning - do this gradually)

4. Eat more fish and seafood, and use lean meats rather than fatty cuts. Moderate protein.

5. Eliminate dairy. :-(

6. Net result to keep fat content and carb content about the same but change the types.

 

I don't know yet how this will work for me (sky high LDL-P) but great success reported by others. I have noticed that on days after I've been high fiber and zero dairy that my fbg is significantly lower, even when total carbs the same.

 

There seems to be a genetic component associated with the high LDL-P on low carb diets; where most others have great success, some gene variations have trouble with saturated fats. You might consider having your genetics tested through 23andme or some other service.

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Kalisiin

Can you guys approximate your saturated vs unsaturated fat? For this last week I averaged 73g saturated vs 98g non.

The GoMeals App, which I use...does differentiate...however, it states it is a program only for the United States...not sure why.

 

Anyway, I had a total of 114 grams of fat yesterday.  23 grams were saturated fat.  So the rest was unsaturated.  91 grams.  So roughly a 4:1 ratio of unsaturated to saturated.  And yesterday was a fairly typical day for me.

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Kalisiin

I don't know yet how this will work for me (sky high LDL-P) but great success reported by others. I have noticed that on days after I've been high fiber and zero dairy that my fbg is significantly lower, even when total carbs the same.

 

There seems to be a genetic component associated with the high LDL-P on low carb diets; where most others have great success, some gene variations have trouble with saturated fats. You might consider having your genetics tested through 23andme or some other service.

Thanks to whatever gods there may be, I do not have this problem...because the LCHF diet does work for me and it is tasty so I can have it for life.  I could not give up my wonderful dairy and actually have to worry about fay on my meat.  I like it. 

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kayell

Thanks to whatever gods there may be, I do not have this problem...because the LCHF diet does work for me and it is tasty so I can have it for life.  I could not give up my wonderful dairy and actually have to worry about fay on my meat.  I like it. 

 

I'm still LCHF, just different fats. I eat a LOT of avocado and evoo (yum). Going low fat just isn't an option. I'm SURE what high BG will do to me, the cholesterol issue is a bit murkier. On the other hand, I regard the switch in types of fats, protein, dairy and such as similar to the changes I've had to make with diabetes. Whatever it takes to stay alive and healthy is what I'll do. I do miss bacon and cheese rather desperately, but I'd miss my health more. 

 

This seems to be an issue only for a subset of LCHF dieters - the estimates seem to range from 20-30%. Others do fine.

 

Since this shows some benefit for my fbg too, it's easier to keep going for the 3 months until my next NMR shows whether it works for the LDL-P too. 

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leosmith

This seems to be an issue only for a subset of LCHF dieters - the estimates seem to range from 20-30%. Others do fine.

Thanks for your helpful posts. I suspect I'm also in this group, but how do I find out for sure? I'm schedule to see the doc Thursday, and I want to express this concern to him properly, and request the right tests. I want to ask for an A1c and lipid screening, but not sure want to say above and beyond this. My doc isn't terribly helpful, incidentally, and even though I know I need to switch it's difficult at this time due to some issues I won't mention.

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leosmith

In addition to the aforementioned good oils, get some flaxseeds or flaxseed oil.

Very good omega composition.

Thanks for reminding me to check this out; so many friends have been raving about it for so many reasons. One of my favorite diet gurus recommends minimizing intake:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/flax-prostate-cancer-risk/#axzz3tejQCKL4

 

But I'll probably take it raw if I get to the point where I can't eat fish any more.

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Moonpie

Yeah, I saw that. I would hate to have to resort to a high-carb diet though. Maybe if all else fails :)

I do not think it is high carb. Have you read it?

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kayell

Thanks for your helpful posts. I suspect I'm also in this group, but how do I find out for sure? 

 

If you get an an advanced cholesterol panel like the NMR you'll find out fast because your doctor will FREAK out on seeing the high LDL-P or small dense LDL numbers. He will want to put you on statins yesterday. However, it seems that many people can lower the LDL-P with the above change in diet. Since my HDL was high, and triglycerides low (and I'm actively losing weight which can raise particle count) he agreed to let me try my way for 3 months and get another NMR.

 

Not sure what I'll do if my numbers are still high then. I'll still be losing weight for the next year at least. So I suppose if the numbers are better, but not down as much as he wants, I'll keep going on diet. I'm personally not pleased with statins and eating higher carb is totally out. 

 

YMMV

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leosmith

I do not think it is high carb. Have you read it?

I had, but only a few entries. When I saw "lower" fat in the title, and items like "Carbmaster cinnamon roll yogurt" and lots of other pre-fabricated diet food, I jumped to conclusions. You're right, it's not high carb. His last summary entry:

 

 

For the one-month period PRECEDING the beginning of this experiment (Dec. 19-Jan. 18):
 
Average BG:  88
Lowest:  61
Highest:  110
Average FBG:  94.17
No. days where all readings <100:  21
No. days where at least one reading > 110:  0
 
Avg daily carbs (including fiber):  52 grams
Avg daily protein:  103.09
Avg daily fat:  150 grams
Avg daily sat fat:  54.3 grams
Days sat fat <50:  12
Lowest sat fat day:  33 grams
 
For the last 30 days:
 
Average BG:  86
Lowest:  64
Highest:  151
Average FBG:  88.52
No. days where all readings <100:  19
No. days where at least one reading > 110:  3
 
Avg. daily carbs (including fiber):  110.87 grams
Avg. daily protein:  120.27
Avg daily fat:  148.03 grams
Avg daily sat fat:  45.27 grams
Days sat fat <50:  20 grams
Lowest sat fat day:  24 grams
 
SO:  In the long run, I haven't really reduced the fat, so much as I've reduced saturated fat by about 17%

 

Comparing this to my stats over the past week, I eat 15% more fat, 64% more saturated, 44% less carbs, 18% more protein and 50% less fiber. I have a feeling both saturated fat and fiber will be important in reducing my cholesterol, provided my test shows I'm still in the red zone.

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