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LizBar

Low carb and in ketosis for weeks and NO weight loss

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LizBar

I have been registering ketones on ketostix every time I test (low to moderate) for several weeks now.  Have spent a lot of time being hungry and recently did increase calories to around 1500 thinking perhaps the former level (around 1200) was too low.  Sometimes I have no appetite, other times I have a hunger sense that is more a head sensation - rarely feel hungry in the stomach.  I weigh between 177-178 first thing in the morning at 5' 9" tall.  I am losing absolutely NO weight!  This was my experience the last time I tried a ketogenic diet - before I was told I was pre-diabetic.  I am seeing blood sugars going down - last two mornings fasting was 95 and 94.  (started at around 113)  Spikes after meals are staying below 130 (sometimes only 115)  but ONLY if I stay very low carb.  3 weeks ago I had Salmon, greens and a baked sweet potato for dinner and it went to 165.  I know what is said about too much protein but it's stated that will take you out of Ketosis.  I always register  ketones.  This is making no sense to me. 

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Seagal

Are you getting enough fat?  Besides helping with ketosis, helps you not to be hungry.  I have not heard keto-adapted folks caring about their calories, it was more the breakdown of macro nutrients.  Are you keeping track of your percentages of fat, protein & carbs?

 

We are some keto adapted members, I'm sure someone will be along to offer suggestions.  I never trusted the ketostix, but guess they work for some.  I could be in ketosis and never get a different color :(

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Kit

Keytones in your urine don't always mean you are in nutritional ketosis.  I don't remember all of the details though there are web sites out there that go into it and I'm sure a few around here can also help out.  I do know the urine sticks and the blood test are actually testing different things and its only the blood strips that are testing the right one.

(I'm at work, I don't have time to look up details.)

 

Also, a small sweet potato contains about 26g of carbs (with 4 of that fiber).  That's a significant amount of carbs to take in in one meal and expect your blood sugar to stay steady.  I assume this is before you decided to go for nutritional ketosis?  Honestly, I'd be more inclined to blame that blood sugar spike on it before I would the salmon.

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jwags

I have been doing Keto on and off for 9 years. I did lose anout 35 pounds. I used a Keto blood meter to check ketones and they were always very low. I have heard the sticks are not good to test for nutritional ketosis.

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comedy

Everything I have read indicates that the urine strips are not a reliable indicator of being in nutritional ketosis, because they measure acetoacetate, whereas the blood strips measure beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB), the ketones actually used for energy. You need a special meter for those, and the strips are expensive, but getting usable feedback is worth it, IMO.

 

Also, the urine strips only measure ketones that are spilling out of the kidneys, and it is possible to be fully keto-adapted according to blood ketones, without spilling any acetoacetate out of the kidneys.

 

In June 2012 I had been low-carbing for six months, but had stopped losing weight. I bought a meter and started checking beta-hydroxybutyrate, discovering that I was definitely not in nutritional ketosis. I increased my fat considerably, worked out my ketogenic ratio and calculated it every day in a spreadsheet, discovered that for my weight, I needed only 54g of protein a day (there are plenty of protein requirement calculators on the web), and become very conscientious about keeping my carbs below 30g a day. I have never worried about calories. Trying to keep them below a certain level is a sure way to get hungry and then eat the wrong food for ketosis, in my experience.

 

What happened for me was the discovery that – for me – it was necessary to have a F:P:C ratio of around 85:10:5 and a ketogenic ratio of at least 2.0 to attain and maintain ketosis. I tested my BHB at least once a day while working this out, but it was very helpful and now I test only once a week most of the time. But I measured every bite of food for over three years to be absolutely sure what I needed to do to maintain keto-adaptation. The reward was that my weight loss started again, dropping much faster and more consistently than it had before.

 

Some people can maintain keto adaptation at lower levels of fat, but for me, now on maintenance, I still need to eat more than 80% fat and watch every single gram of protein. I still don't worry about calories, only allowing Calorie King to calculate daily calories to keep track of my F:P:C ratio.

 

Being truly ketogenic takes a lot of work in the beginning, but I found it to be worth the constant weighing and measuring and record keeping because the rewards are truly wonderful.

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LizBar

Oh - I do blame that spike on the sweet potato - something the doctor told me I could eat!  I haven't eaten anything like that for several weeks and I don't get spikes like that now.    I do know my carbs are low enough for anyone to be in ketosis! (NO grains, fruit, high starch veggies, sugars at all)   Other than just eating pure fat several times a day I'm not sure how to get much more fat.   If low carb makes you burn fat, which I'm sure it does, it would seem that if you were eating lot of fat then you would burn that instead of body fat if the total were more than your body burns.     As to calories - I read on one keto site that you still can't eat tons of calories and expect to lose weight.  Point is I've had low enough calories for anyone to lose weight and few enough carbs for anyone to be in ketosis.  It gets tiresome feeling like nothing works!  I also have other things I can't eat that I enjoy because they cause reflux.  Nothing makes sense.  I put cream in coffee, eat only full fat organic cheese, organic bacon, olive oil all over salad and oil or butter on vegetables.  And, after doctor figured I just must have CAD due to the blood sugar (which really has been high with below normal insulin for at least 8 years now) - I had cardiac calcium heart scan and I have ZERO percent calcium in arteries!  Great Blood pressure - no evidence of any damage from the pre-diabetes levels.  That's the other thing I don't get - they keep talking about high insulin levels and metabolic syndrome causing weight problems but my insulin has been LOW since I requested a test in 2008 and possibly before that.  I don't seem to fit any of the standard ideas. 

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comedy

Your body needs quite a lot of fuel just to maintain essential services such as brain (the largest user of energy by a long way), heart, lungs and digestion. Moving around uses more. When keto-adapted, your body uses ketones first, then body fat for more. This does work, and I've found that my level of exercise makes no difference to weight loss. I still exercise, but for different reasons. Even before ketosis, I never lost a single gram of weight from exercise.

 

To get the most out of a ketogenic diet, it's important not to eat too often. If you do it correctly, you won't be hungry between meals anyway, but the longer you can leave it between meals, the more your body will switch to using body fat for energy. And that's what being truly keto-adapted means. I try to have a gap of at least 12 hours between dinner and breakfast, to be sure my body is using body fat for at least some of the time every day.

 

You seem to be really committed to becoming keto-adapted, so I suggest you get one of the ketone meters and some strips, and test as I suggested in my previous post.

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kayell

I put cream in coffee, eat only full fat organic cheese, organic bacon, olive oil all over salad and oil or butter on vegetables.  

 

There are some people who can't tolerate dairy (and sometimes most animal saturated fats.) This is different from lactose intolerance. It affects BG and often cholesterol. I've had to cut out all dairy, only eat the leanest cuts of meat, switch to eating more seafood and get most of my fat from monounsaturated fats and some polyunsaturated high in O3. Lots of avocado, olives and olive oil, hazelnuts, macadamias, fatty fishes like salmon.

 

Dairy seems to always spike my bg way beyond any actual sugars. You might want to try going dairy free and see what happens. I saw results on bg after a few days. For me the other saturated fatty foods are more associated with high LDL-P.

 

Please note, this isn't everyone, but around 20-30% of keto dieters can have problems with excess SFA.

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LizBar

On time between dinner and breakfast - I usually go between 14 and 16 hours from dinner to breakfast.   During the day I sometimes get hunger and sometimes not.  I had a stool test that showed I wasn't digesting fats very well several months ago.  I take prescription strength pancreatic enzymes with each meal.  Eating too much at one time makes me very uncomfortable.  I've been with people that ate over twice what I ate and they ate many more high carb things also  and I have hardly been able to breathe I was so miserable and they were fine.   I am looking at the ketone meter but it is expensive - already spent a lot on the supplements that seem to help my blood sugar too and I already know I'm eating extremely low carb - I don't eat anything processed - everything is made myself from the basic ingredients so I know what is in everything. 

 

As to dairy, I'm not finding that it spikes my blood sugar at all - but only full fat organic grass fed cheese and organic cream are what I eat.  I can only handle so much meat, chicken or fish and I have no interest in eating a huge steak like I've seen mentioned on some sites.  I can eat a lot of greens, broccolli, cauliflower, aspraragus and such. 

 

I've been reading so much and obsessing so much over this that I'm afraid I  may reach a point of burn-out - like I have no life.  I have studied ways to stay healthy for years and always been the one at a gathering that people would ask "is that all you are going to eat?"  and it's very hard at times to be hit with this.  I'm sure others feel the same way. 

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Seagal

It might not work for you, but I didn't start losing weight (and I have tried it all)until I dropped my calories to less than 1000 and some days it is 800 (or less).  This doesn't work for everyone and many will tell you it is unhealthy.  I do 15-30 carbs per day and low calorie and get some results.  Takes me longer to lose because I am in my 70's, but dang it is nice to see some results after so many years of trying everything under the sun.  I also feel so much better after dropping 20# & counting.

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comedy

 

I've been reading so much and obsessing so much over this that I'm afraid I  may reach a point of burn-out - like I have no life.  I have studied ways to stay healthy for years and always been the one at a gathering that people would ask "is that all you are going to eat?"  and it's very hard at times to be hit with this.  I'm sure others feel the same way. 

I suppose it depends on how keen you are to lose weight, which seemed to me to be the focus of your original post. As I mentioned in previous posts, too much protein is not going to put you into nutritional ketosis, so those huge steaks are not part of a true keto diet for anybody. What happened with me was that I concentrated hard in the first few months, but having done that and understood what works for me, I pay no more attention to meal planning, shopping and eating than I did before I was diagnosed. I have to say that being keto-adapted, my BG numbers are all in a very small range, so no nasty surprises, and my HbA1c has also been in a very small range (tiny, actually) for a long time. So it has had a huge benefit for me on my diabetic health as well as losing weight and managing my diabetes to reduce the risk of complications.

 

Because of the focus on fat, which is much more dense than protein and carbohydrates, true keto adaption involves small meals, even when they are few and far between. I've never needed to apologise to anybody for the size of my meals, or what they contain.

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