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Hammer

A gun thread...

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pcramer1

well, i have been working hard on not saying *everything* that is on my mind, so that's why i deleted what i had typed

 

i hate the guilty feeling i get if i say something snarky that didn't need to be said....i am trying to grow as a human being

 

:)

 

and i have never heard of a ZIP gun - sounds painfully effective

I have several friends that have the disease called "OTM"-- on the mind--out the mouth..many of us have it but it can be controlled.

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meyery2k

I have several friends that have the disease called "OTM"-- on the mind--out the mouth..many of us have it but it can be controlled.

My father often accused me of running my mouth before engaging my brain when I was young...  I actually got the concept of that because I had a dirt bike with a manual transmission...

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Hammer

Well, I ordered and received, two concealed carry holsters, one for my Nano, and one for my P938, and as much as I like them, I can't use them.  These holsters (made by 2nd amendment holsters), are the perfect size for concealed carry, however, they are made of Kydex, which is like a plastic material.  When I put on one of these holsters, well, because I am fat, the fat overlaps my waistband, and rests on top of the Kydex, and that really hurts.  It's impossible to sit down wearing one of these, no matter where I position it.  I'm beginning to wonder now if there is any concealed carry holster that I can use....maybe a leather one?....suggestions anyone?

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Java

i bought one of those and sent it back because it was just too hard

 

i like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Mikes-Nylon-Inside-Holster/dp/B001E8EH74/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1490371491&sr=1-1&keywords=uncle+mikes+holster

 

a shoulder holster may be better for you maybe?

Edited by javagurrl

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OneEye

I agree with Javagurrl on the 'shoulder holster' suggestion. When you mention that your fat overlaps your waistband - that tells me that your fairly fat all over. That makes it kinda awkward trying to pull from your waist. I was fat once...so I know how it is trying to contort your body into certain positions. In fact...that's what made me lose weight. I tried to clip my toenails one night...and couldn't reach them. What to do? Lose weight or grow claws? Anyway...

 

Maybe a cross-reach to a shoulder holster might be easier. It's worth a test-drive. Last thing ya' wanna do is pull a muscle trying to outdraw someone. :)

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OneEye

Thinking further on this: Maybe you could do like my next door neighbor did. Her daughter has a big house up on the hill that she had ADT install their 'high dollar' alarm system in. When they were through they put one of those secured by ADT decals on the front window and left a couple more on the table. The daughter brought one down and put it on my neighbor's front window. No burglaries...yet.

 

So, in that vein...maybe have a cloth patch made up for your jacket: I PACK A GUN! Big red letters on a white patch...and just don't carry. Whatcha think?  ;) 

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Hammer

Thinking further on this: Maybe you could do like my next door neighbor did. Her daughter has a big house up on the hill that she had ADT install their 'high dollar' alarm system in. When they were through they put one of those secured by ADT decals on the front window and left a couple more on the table. The daughter brought one down and put it on my neighbor's front window. No burglaries...yet.

 

So, in that vein...maybe have a cloth patch made up for your jacket: I PACK A GUN! Big red letters on a white patch...and just don't carry. Whatcha think?  ;)

I like that idea, but the thing is, while my area is safe, I frequently travel to other areas that are not so safe.  I have no worries about being attacked in my area, but in the areas that I frequent, well, I don't feel safe in those areas.  Putting a sign on my house would serve no purpose, since I live in a very safe area, but when I travel to those areas that are not so safe, I want to make sure that I will not be a victim of a violent crime.  While I hope that I never have to use my gun on someone, I want to have the protection that I need, should I have the misfortune of running into someone who wants to do me harm.

 

I have the utmost respect for you Oneeye, but let me ask you a question....if you were confronted by a criminal who wanted to rob you or to do physical harm to you, would you rather be unarmed, or, have a concealed weapon on you to protect yourself?  Myself, I want to be armed so that I can protect myself....I don't want to be a victim.

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Gladtobehere

It seems to me that in order to use a gun you need it  IN HAND ,prior to a bad guy threatening you.    That , as pointed out very early in the thread, requires a very special attitude.  Like military,special forces would have.  Of course they operate in an environment where they can justify the use of force in a preemptive manner.

 

I think a bullet proof vest and staying away from "bad" areas would be a much better solution.   Not quite chuck norris, but likely a better way to protect yourself.

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Fraser

I have always lived in large cities which one might consider to be dangerous. I have kept myself in shape and and trained in self defense.

Self defense teachers you how to get out of situations and hopefully run as fast as you can.

A coulple of years ago I was waiting for a bus (daytime) and some guy came up from behind me and grabbed my phone.

I was quick enough to take my umbrella whack him in the head and knock the phone out of his hand. Then I realized there was another guy behind me. So I just turned and ran shouting as loud as I could. Leaving my phone and two very confused thiefs Who ran the other way.

To conclude someone down the street saw what was going on and waved down a police car just in time to have the thiefs turn the corner,

They were arrested and convicted of theft and an elder crime. I got my phone back.

Would I do it again, no. I was lucky. A phone is not worth it. And I am glad there were no guns on either side.

I still run several times a week and continue taking self dense classes.

I am 71 and I don't see myself as a victim.

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OneEye

I have the utmost respect for you OneEye, but let me ask you a question....if you were confronted by a criminal who wanted to rob you or to do physical harm to you, would you rather be unarmed, or, have a concealed weapon on you to protect yourself?  Myself, I want to be armed so that I can protect myself....I don't want to be a victim.

 

I understand you want to "protect" yourself. But consider this. This whole packin' a gun around with you gives you a mindset about your life in general. In the service you packed a weapon to stay alive. It was that type of reality you were in. It's always on your mind...and having a weapon strapped to you reminds you of that. Do you feel your socks on you? No. Do you feel your hat, your glasses, your pants, your wallet? No! Do you feel that gun on you...bulging under your arm or strapped to your belt every time you move? Yes,  you do...and it reminds you you're a strapped cowboy and anybody messes with YOU...they're gonna get the horns! Trust me...I spent two tours in Vietnam as a Special Forces Advisor and after being medevaced out in '67 I promised myself I'd never touch another gun or put myself in a reality where I'd need one. Packing a gun is an ever-present thing.

 

To your question: "...if you were confronted by a criminal who wanted to rob you or to do physical harm to you, would you rather be unarmed, or, have a concealed weapon on you to protect yourself?" I'm not your ideal subject for that kind of a question; I'm highly trained to neutralize that kind of a situation almost before it presents itself. My best "weapon" is my wits. I, how should I put this...can see around the curve. But...I'll share something that's relative.

 

I grew up in San Francisco in a tough neighborhood. After high school I joined the service; 1961. In 1967 I took up residence in 'the Bay Area' again and lived there until 1977. Everything changes. What was once 'my turf' turned into 'their' turf...a matter of numbers. Summer of 1977 I'm in the Westlake shopping mall with the wife and daughter...on the second tier window shopping. I'm sitting on a bench by the rail and the wife and daughter are inside a store. 3 guys come up to me, one guy sits next to me and pushes his jacket pocket up against me...tells me he has a gun, to hand over my wallet. Well, there's your hypothetical "rob you or do physical harm to you" situation. C'mon...I'm shopping with my family!

 

These are small guys...Asian. I've been here before. I push the gun-in-pocket away from me with my left arm and grab this guy by the crotch with my right hand and toss him off the second tier. The other two take off running. I walk over to the store entrance and wave to my wife to come out. I take the wife and daughter out the exit, down the parking lot to our car and leave. 48 days later we're in a new home 165 miles away in the foothills of Butte county. That was 40 years ago. No problems since.

 

The best defense? The best defense is a well-thought-out offense, whatever you think that might be. As long as that defense doesn't eat up the time in your life you should be enjoying life...and not paranoid about losing it. In essence...if you're packing a gun around in anticipation for that moment to happen...you're already a victim.

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Hammer

You make some valid points OneEye, and I want to thank you for your service to this country.  You definitely have experience dealing with the situations that I've mentioned, whereas I have little experience in that regard.  I should say that I am a very low key, unexcitable person, and I am never quick to violence.  If someone gives me a hard time, or tries to start trouble, I just walk away.  At my age, running away would be a bit more difficult.  I would never pull out a gun, or even just raise my shirt to show my gun to someone who was trying to start trouble, I'm a very peaceable person and would rather try to diffuse a situation as opposed to shooting someone.  To me, carrying a concealed weapon gives me a higher level of security that I would never have needed when I was younger, but I need it now because I am not a spring chicken anymore.  I hope that I'll never ever have to use a gun to protect myself because I don't want to harm anyone, even a criminal, but if it's a choice between their life and mine, I'm going to choose mine.  Again, I still might lose and die, but I'll at least have a chance with a concealed weapon, whereas without a concealed weapon, I'd have no chance at all. 

 

Thanks for your input on this topic, I appreciate it.  It gives me a different perspective on it, and I like that....it never hurts to see things from another person's perspective. :)

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Fraser

Well if we are not so young any more (note I was targeted as an older person) personally I understand that I need to make decisions

To protect my self and not endanger others. I just don't put myself in harms way. Just my thought.

I see this is a lost discussion.

You mentioned your age as a modifier, which is ?

As I mentioned mine is am 71.

Enjoy your life choices

Edited by Fraser

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Hammer

Well if we are not so young any more (note I was targeted as an older person) personally I understand that I need to make decisions

To protect my self and not endanger others. I just don't put myself in harms way. Just my thought.

I see this is a lost discussion.

You mentioned your age as a modifier, which is ?

As I mentioned mine is am 71.

Enjoy your life choices

Hi Fraser!  I am 64 years old, but I have a herniated disk in my lower back that makes it difficult for me to stand for more than 5 minutes, I have arthritis in both shoulders, both elbows and my feet.  Please don't feel that this is a lost discussion because, I like to hear what others think about this topic.  I appreciate all replies.

 

Something that I should mention here is that, while I do have a concealed carry permit, I have two concealed carry guns and holsters for those guns, I have yet to carry one of them on me.  The reason I have not carried them is because of something that OneEye mentioned....carrying a concealed gun changes your state of mind, and he is correct.  If I carry a concealed weapon, it puts me under a lot of pressure, knowing that I am carrying something that can kill another person.  That is a burden that I have been thinking a lot about lately.  To know that I am carrying a weapon that can kill someone isn't something that I take lightly, and it causes me a lot of concern, so I have yet to carry a gun.  While I enjoy going to the shooting range with my friend and "killing targets", to point a gun at another person is a completely different thing.  That's where the burden comes in....I don't ever want to find myself in a situation where I have to point a gun at another person.  Until I am able to feel okay with carrying a gun, I won't carry a gun.

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Fraser

I hope you can do something to correct that disk.i don't have experience with that.

But after filling out the police report the police explained why I was a target,

1 age, white hair

2 I was limping because of a fall while running and bandage knee.

3 I was not paying attention to my surroundings.

4 I was putting myself in harms way.

What I learned was I

Was an easy target. At least in their mind.

And I try not to be exposed like that again.

Which is a decision that I can control

Edited by Fraser

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buddy7

  Please don't feel that this is a lost discussion because, I like to hear what others think about this topic.  I appreciate all replies.

 

Something that I should mention here is that, while I do have a concealed carry permit, I have two concealed carry guns and holsters for those guns, I have yet to carry one of them on me.  The reason I have not carried them is because of something that OneEye mentioned....carrying a concealed gun changes your state of mind, and he is correct.  If I carry a concealed weapon, it puts me under a lot of pressure, knowing that I am carrying something that can kill another person.  That is a burden that I have been thinking a lot about lately.  To know that I am carrying a weapon that can kill someone isn't something that I take lightly, and it causes me a lot of concern, so I have yet to carry a gun.  While I enjoy going to the shooting range with my friend and "killing targets", to point a gun at another person is a completely different thing.  That's where the burden comes in....I don't ever want to find myself in a situation where I have to point a gun at another person.  Until I am able to feel okay with carrying a gun, I won't carry a gun.

Most of the post in “A Gun Thread” I’ve taken the pleasure of reading them, but I have chosen to stop reading them because of some negative abstracts, not only by yourself, but others. May I say before I get into my post, it’s not my intention to be patronizing? But reading your above post you’ve made a whole lot of sense about your gun.

(Point A) As I have read on many occasions, and this do have my sympathy, for any person who owns a gun or carries a gun in their home. If an assailant broke into your home, put’s you or your family under siege when you or your family life is threatened, whatever force deemed necessary to get-rid of them, should be used. What I see as a fine line, if you’re carrying a concealed gun, which puts you at risk and under pressure, walking the streets may be shopping or other, and a fracas broke out, say! You were isolated or picked upon. For that split second you may seek to defend yourself, will you hesitate to use your concealed gun? For me the answer has to no, no hesitation on my part.

Let’s hope you’ll never be put in that situation.

“Point A” does not apply to the UK. Guns are illegal over here, but they still exist by other source.

Only special gun units in our Police forces are allowed to carry guns on and off duty.

Edited by buddy7

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buddy7

Most of the post in “A Gun Thread” I’ve taken the pleasure of reading them, but I have chosen to stop reading them because of some negative abstracts, not only by yourself, but others. May I say before I get into my post, it’s not my intention to be patronizing? But reading your above post you’ve made a whole lot of sense about your gun.

(Point A) As I have read on many occasions, and this do have my sympathy, for any person who owns a gun or carries a gun in their home. If an assailant broke into your home, put’s you or your family under siege when you or your family life is threatened, whatever force deemed necessary to get-rid of them, should be used.

(Point B) What I see as a fine line, if you’re carrying a concealed gun, which puts you at risk and under pressure, walking the streets may be shopping or other, and a fracas broke out, say! You were isolated or picked upon. For that split second you may seek to defend yourself, will you hesitate to use your concealed gun? For me the answer has to no, no hesitation on my part.

Let’s hope you’ll never be put in that situation.

“Point A” does not apply to the UK. Guns are illegal over here, but they still exist by other source.

Only special gun units in our Police forces are allowed to carry guns on and off duty.

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Hammer

I hope you can do something to correct that disk.i don't have experience with that.

But after filling out the police report the police explained why I was a target,

1 age, white hair

2 I was limping because of a fall while running and bandage knee.

3 I was not paying attention to my surroundings.

4 I was putting myself in harms way.

What I learned was I

Was an easy target. At least in their mind.

And I try not to be exposed like that again.

Which is a decision that I can control

Fraser, there really isn't anything that I can do to correct my herniated disk.  Years ago, I had it partially removed, and that resolved a lot of my back pain, but at that time, the surgeon told me that having it partially removed was only a temporary solution, that at some point down the road, I would need to have the rest of the disk removed, and then have a spinal fusion.  Well, I reached that point some years later, so I went to a surgeon who specialized in that field, and after a number of X-rays and tests, he told me this: "I'm going to tell you what I tell all patients in your shoes.  If you are not in excruciating pain, then I would not recommend the surgery, because we can't guarantee that the surgery will correct your problem, and in fact, it could make it worse."  Since I am not in excruciating pain, I decided to not have the surgery....I can live with the pain that I have.

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Hammer

One question that I would like to ask OneEye...you said that,

"The best defense? The best defense is a well-thought-out offense, whatever you think that might be. As long as that defense doesn't eat up the time in your life you should be enjoying life...and not paranoid about losing it. In essence...if you're packing a gun around in anticipation for that moment to happen...you're already a victim."

 

Well my question is that, since I was never in the military and received that type of special training, if a person took karate, as well as self defense classes (I've taken both many years ago), then using your logic of packing a gun in anticipation for that moment to happen, wouldn't that make the person who took these classes also a victim, since they took the classes for protection, just like the person who carries a gun for protection?

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OneEye

One question that I would like to ask OneEye...you said that, "The best defense? The best defense is a well-thought-out offense, whatever you think that might be. As long as that defense doesn't eat up the time in your life you should be enjoying life...and not paranoid about losing it. In essence...if you're packing a gun around in anticipation for that moment to happen...you're already a victim."

 

Well my question is that, since I was never in the military and received that type of special training, if a person took karate, as well as self defense classes (I've taken both many years ago), then using your logic of packing a gun in anticipation for that moment to happen, wouldn't that make the person who took these classes also a victim, since they took the classes for protection, just like the person who carries a gun for protection?

 

Any defense is only as good as it applies to the situation. Any 14-year-old gang member could have shot Bruce Lee dead and took his wallet. Of course, Bruce Lee avoided that from happening by never walking through a thug-infested neighborhood and shouting, "I'M BRUCE LEE! COME GET SOME!" Unless you can actually touch someone...any martial art training is worthless at that moment in time. Tell someone pointing a gun at you that you "know karate" and they'll probably shoot you out of their sense of self-defense. It's all relative.

 

Is being trained in martial arts as a defense against thugs or bullies different than packing a gun? In certain ways, it is. For one...it's something you have that you don't have to pull from a holster. It's also a mindset and taught to use as a last resort. Avoiding trouble is always better than trying to solve it. Martial arts is also a highly physical thing...you have to be in fairly good shape to execute it. No old, fat guys that took a few classes when they were in their 20s. With a gun...doesn't matter how old, how fat, how short, how crippled or how mentally unstable you are...all it takes is the finger-strength of a 4-year old and the muzzle velocity still remains the same. The only drawback is going through the paperwork of "justification"...and then waiting for all the guy's buddies and relatives to come for a little "vengeance". And they will...

 

Back to your question, though. Do I consider someone who learns martial arts to protect themselves (should that occasion present itself), a victim? A soft no, because that's an offensive move...not a defensive move. It's no different, in my opinion, than going to college and then getting a good job to protect your future family from the slings and arrows of poverty. That you've painted yourself into a corner where you feel you need to wear a gun, in my opinion, is the real tragedy here.

 

Reminds me, a little, of that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indiana is searching the crowd for Marion and this huge Arab, swinging a 5-foot Scimitar sword steps out of the crowd...and Indy summarily shoots him. And we all giggle 'cause Indy's our man...but in essence he's murdered someone and is never brought to justice for that. Meh...it's the movies, right?! 

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adiantum

kinda off topic...

 

years ago a man I'd often see & admire. He had a nice dog & my Doberman liked him so that was good enough for me.

He was friendly, handsome, intelligent  , the best dressed man in town & a Buddhist.

 

His body was found 5am in the gutter one rainy winter morning .

 

We were all devastated.

 

I sent a sympathy card to his family via the funeral director & in it saying that he was the kindest most gentle man I'd ever met.

I do hope that gave them comfort as Ive since found out that he had served 20 years for a double murder...a drug deal that went wrong.

 

As OneEye said...

" the guy's buddies and relatives to come for a little "vengeance". And they will..."

 

 

Hammer, I wish you could see how this obsession is turning into a paranoia & just step back & enjoy the beauty of life.

Many old people become afraid of the younger generation & that's sad to allow  fear to become part of you.

 

Nobody is  out to get you.

 

They will only want your Etoys if your flashing them around.

 

Carry a concealed wallet with  the bulk of your money & if they want the wallet they can see, then give it to them.

Keep your bank card in your pocket.

Avoid high risk areas.

 

Fraser has given excellent street smart advice. Being street smart allows us the skills to mingle without fear.

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Hammer

Just for reference, I am not becoming obsessed with this, I becoming more interested in guns and shooting them at the range.  I am shooting them at the range with my friend for enjoyment.  When I saw her take out her concealed weapon to shoot, I asked her about it, and she mentioned that she had a concealed carry permit....it intrigued me, so I checked into it.  To get a permit, you just fill out the form online, then wait to hear from the sheriff's office, once you receive a letter from them, you take the letter to the sheriff's office, they take your picture, you pay them $20, and that's it.  If it was difficult to get one, I wouldn't have bothered.  For $20, I figured that I'd just go ahead an get one myself for several reasons, one being that it allows me to carry my guns to the range in the front seat of my car.  Without the permit, I'd get fined and possibly get locked up for carrying them in the front seat, even if they were unloaded.(I don't keep any gun loaded when I'm not at the range.)

 

The other reason I got a permit was in CASE I wanted to conceal carry.  I've tried several different conceal carry holsters, and it seems that if I can't find one that doesn't dig into my skin, I won't be able to conceal carry anyway  I just want to know that I have the option to conceal carry if I want to....I mean, it only costs $20 for a five year permit, so why not get one?  If I never use it fine, but at least I have it.  Oh, and while I was at the local sheriff's office to pick up the permit, they were selling solid brass coins for $10 each.  One was that of a sheriff's badge with their motto on the back, and the other was of a German Shepard, with the county's logo for their K-9 unit on the back of it, with the proceeds from both coins going to support their K-9 unit, so I bought one of each. :)

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adiantum

I trust  you heard that sigh of relief :D

 

That missing post alarmed me as in it , your intentions didn't appear to be so  innocent .

 

I'm very pleased you have supported the K-9 unit.

 

Our communities  are made safe thanks to  canines & police

Edited by adiantum

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Hammer

For those of you who own and shoot rifles, I was thinking about getting a rifle to take to the shooting range, but I have never fired a rifle, so I was hoping to pick your brain.  This is the rifle that I have been contemplating on getting, but if I should decide to get it, it comes in two variations....a .44-40, and a .45 Colt.  I have been researching both calibers, but I can't decide which one would be better for me....IF I decide to get one.(they are a bit pricey, so maybe, maybe not.)

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OneEye

I was going to go into this long, drawn-out thing about fun guns and such...but I'm going to save everyone the snooze. Let me suggest this: Google 'rifle forums', 'shooter forums', even 'most fun gun to shoot/own'. Like here...you'll be talking to a wide variety of gun owners who know what they're talking about.

 

About your link: That $2300 repop Henry? In my opinion...that's a gun you buy, hang it on the wall and when your gun buddies come over...you point to it and say, "Hey...look what I bought!" Then they go on about telling you that they would have bought the .45 model because the .44-.40 WCF rounds are too touchy to reload; how come they don't sell a Rifleman model with the stupid cocking lever? and...just as soon as you send a round down the barrel it's going to be worth about $800.

 

The greatest pleasure I found at the range? No one's shooting back!

Edited by OneEye

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Hammer

What piqued my interest in this Henry Rifle, was a movie that I watched some time ago.  The movie was called "Unforgiven", with Clint Eastwood, Morgan Freeman and Gene Hackman.  In that movie, Clint Eastwood takes one last job to hunt down a pair of cowboys, so he stops off at Morgan Freeman's house to get his help.  As they are leaving, Clint Eastwood tells Morgan Freeman to grab his Henry Rifle.  He wanted that rifle because of it's accuracy, and the Henry Rifle that is made today is just as accurate, at least that's what I've been reading in the reviews and from watching the Youtube reviews.  Hearing the name Henry Rifle, made me search it out, and I was surprised to see that they are still made, and also still made in the US.

 

I still don't know if I'm going to buy a rifle, especially one that's as expensive as a Henry Rifle.  Then again, over the years, I've spent more than $5,000 on my telescope and it's accessories, so who knows? :)

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