Jump to content
Diabetes forums
  • Welcome To Diabetes Forums!

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today to contribute and support the site.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

FunDad62

Plant-Based Whole-Food Eating discussion

Recommended Posts

FunDad62

I've watched a lot of documentaries this year on this topic.  It makes me believe this is a very healthy way to eat and to possibly reverse some diseases.  My boss's husband dropped dead of a heart attack 3 years ago.  They thought he was in excellent health.  She stopped eating meat and (most) animal products this year and said she's lost weight and feels so much better.  She rarely gets sick and has no health issues.  I was telling her about my upcoming cardiac stress test tomorrow and she's convinced a plant based/whole food diet would cure my ill health.  But then I read other things that say it's not the best diet.  What and how to eat is so confusing and I firmly believe that's what the government and food industries want us to feel.  Confusion.  So we'll buy their products and they continue to fund government studies.  I went out and purchased ingredients for the Engine 2 breakfast cereal a month ago and tried it one morning.  It was very tasty and I could easily eat it every day.  But 2 hours later my glucose was 343.  Frustrating.  And I have a history of heart disease so any time I eat anything with fat I feel totally guilty.  Aka, meats.

 

So I thought I'd start a thread to get feedback from my trusted friends here.  Any of you diabetics here a vegetarian or vegan?  Fire away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TX_Clint

I eat vegetarians if that counts.

 

I have read of low carb vegan diets that are doable but not worth the effort in my opinion. I think the key to proper diet for a T2 like me is a LCHF diet with care taken in the distribution of protein, fat and carbs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kit

In my opinion its best to eat a wide variety of unprocessed foods.  Now granted, in order to keep my BG numbers in check I do limit or eliminate higher carb foods such as sugars, grains, and most root vegetables.  But I do try to keep as much variety as possible within those limitations.

 

If you look at my grocery cart, the vast majority of the items comes from the produce department.  But there's still meat, eggs, and dairy in there as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FunDad62

I keep hearing carbs are not the enemy of diabetes and sugar does not and never has caused diabetes.  It's fat that prevents insulin from processing them.  So it makes sense to me to eat low fat.  But I know LCHF works too.  So which is right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
meyery2k

It may very well be a "Your Mileage May Vary" thing since there could be many underlying causes of diabetes.  Low fat might work great for some, but not for others.

 

If it wasn't for fats, I would be miserable and hungry all the time lol...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kit
17 minutes ago, FunDad62 said:

I keep hearing carbs are not the enemy of diabetes and sugar does not and never has caused diabetes.  It's fat that prevents insulin from processing them.  So it makes sense to me to eat low fat.  But I know LCHF works too.  So which is right?

 

My BG meter says otherwise.  My BG levels spike with sugar, potatoes, pasta, rice, most fruit, etc.  My meter shows me that this is happening.

 

I guess I trust my meter since it has led me to excellent A1Cs with only minimal medication.

 

If my next A1C stays under 5.0, I'm going to try without the Met to see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
macksvicky
2 hours ago, TX_Clint said:

I eat vegetarians if that counts.

 

I have read of low carb vegan diets that are doable but not worth the effort in my opinion. I think the key to proper diet for a T2 like me is a LCHF diet with care taken in the distribution of protein, fat and carbs. 

 

vegetarians  yummmmm LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
macksvicky
1 hour ago, FunDad62 said:

I keep hearing carbs are not the enemy of diabetes and sugar does not and never has caused diabetes.  It's fat that prevents insulin from processing them.  So it makes sense to me to eat low fat.  But I know LCHF works too.  So which is right?

 

The fat that you are referring to is the type that spreads across your mid section, hips, thighs, etc.  It is not the healthy type of fat that you eat.

Eating fat does not make you fat. The fat that makes us look like marshmallows is from eating processed foods and especially carbs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carol_42
1 hour ago, FunDad62 said:

I keep hearing carbs are not the enemy of diabetes and sugar does not and never has caused diabetes.  It's fat that prevents insulin from processing them.  So it makes sense to me to eat low fat.  But I know LCHF works too.  So which is right?

 

FunDad, this is one of those situations where you can't have your cake and eat it.  I have learned there are some foods I will never (safely) be able to eat again if I want to maintain health and wellness.  It's all about personal choice.

 

There are so many great people at this forum that have encouraged me along the way with the Keto diet.  And honestly, with tender-heartedness and caring, the best advise I can give to you is this ... listen to them.  And as I say those words to you, I say them right back at myself ... because I need to "get off the pot" and exercise with passion and consistency so I can maintain good weight and lower my next A1c.

 

Cheers and hang in there.  You are special.  Hugs.

CB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carol_42
41 minutes ago, macksvicky said:

 

The fat that you are referring to is the type that spreads across your mid section, hips, thighs, etc.  It is not the healthy type of fat that you eat.

Eating fat does not make you fat. The fat that makes us look like marshmallows is from eating processed foods and especially carbs.

 

But you know, bacon is processed food.  And it's one food that is highly tooted at this group: that and bacon grease.  I still eat bacon just about every day but I wonder, should I ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
macksvicky

I don't really count bacon in that scenario, mainly boxed food and plastic wrapped stuff that have a ton of ingredients that you can't pronounce and takes a chemist to make them. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adiantum

I'd eat to your meter FunDad & maintain a good exercise program.

Your bosses husband could have had a  poor gene bank or other hidden symptoms.

 

I suspect low fat diets contribute to dementia , so enjoy those leafy greens swimming in butter 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dowling gram
9 hours ago, FunDad62 said:

I keep hearing carbs are not the enemy of diabetes and sugar does not and never has caused diabetes.  It's fat that prevents insulin from processing them.  So it makes sense to me to eat low fat.  But I know LCHF works too.  So which is right?

 Answer me this---If carbs and sugar aren't the enemy of diabetics why do the people here have better health and feel better once they drop sugar and cut carbs. It seems to me that your answer is in this forum. You should not be confused when the answer is right in front of you.

 

As for fat preventing insulin from processing carbs and sugar that's a new one for me. Now if you are talking losing fat in the name of weight loss that';s a different story than good fat in your diet. If you know that a LCHF diet works and there is repeated evidence here that it lowers bad cholesterol then why would you buy into this theory.

 

As for the cause of diabetes that can be many things. Some have no relation to diet and some may have a relation to diet but it seems to me that once you are diagnosed the cause is irrelevant. You can make yourself crazy searching for a cause and you may come to the wrong conclusion.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanetP

I have been hearing the same thing and am under pressure from vegan and vegetarian friends to change my ways.  I have started keeping a food, activity, exercise journal again as I have been off track for most of this year and am working on getting back in line. Here is hoping that the hard numbers will shut them up.

 

I have one acquaintance who is vegetarian and diabetic and I want to make time to talk with her, see what her numbers are, and ask how she manages.  Ironically, she is a 71-year-old instructor in the local karate dojo.  I suspect exercise plays a huge part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
meyery2k

Exercise is important to me.  If I slack, my fasting will start to creep into the higher 90's from the 80-95 that I usually have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
carfree

This topic is so interesting yet confusing to me.  It seems that some people do so well on a vegan diet, and others do not.  Is it genetic, epigenetic, the timing of the dietary changes, allergies or food sensitivities?   I have wondered if for some people in say a prediabetic state, the resistant starch and prebiotics in a vegan diet might help with insulin resistance.  Or maybe someone with a dairy or egg sensitivity might do better without those, regardless if vegan or meat eater. I also think if you take someone eating a standard 'american' diet and take out the sugar and processed food, s/he will do better, whether this is a vegan, vegetarian, flexitarian, low carb, or whatever diet.  So someone might say my .......... diet is fantastic, but it's really just that it just doesn't have the bad stuff in it.  Pure speculation on my part.

 I think there is some research that shows that an almost fat free diet helps some people reduce insulin resistance, but it seems that the fatty liver piece that makes  insulin resistance worse is not due to dietary fat, but usually carbs, or just overeating.  Eating fat free may have other long-term problems though.  I did this once while on Accutane, and my triglycerides sky rocketed.

All I know is that my numbers are bad when I eat a lot of carbs.  I wouldn't eat 'healthy' food that spikes my BG, even though someone says it's a great food for them.  My meter shows it's clearly not healthy for me.  I do eat a lot of green veggies and don't eat dairy, but also eat a lot of fat (no bacon though!), seeds, and low to moderate amounts of eggs and  meat. I'm not sure if this is the best overall, but so far, it seems best for my blood sugars.

  I was vegan when diagnosed, and then turned to  a near-vegan moderate carb no sugar diet, but it didn't work.  My A1c didn't change.  That approach works for some people though. There are also ethical and environmental concerns with certain ways of eating so that complicates things further.  It's a lot to try to figure it all out.

That's my two cents.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kit
5 minutes ago, carfree said:

I also think if you take someone eating a standard 'american' diet and take out the sugar and processed food, s/he will do better, whether this is a vegan, vegetarian, flexitarian, low carb, or whatever diet.  So someone might say my .......... diet is fantastic, but it's really just that it just doesn't have the bad stuff in it.  Pure speculation on my part.

 

I wonder the same.  I've become a dedicated label reader since I was diagnosed and it can be quite amazing what all junk is in even the "healthy" stuff.  I'm sure going to a whole foods vegan diet is better than the additives in most processed foods.

 

But I still trust my meter over what a lot of non diabetics have to say about what is good for diabetics.  If a food consistently raises my BG numbers higher than I like, it gets struck off my list.  That's how wheat, rice, potatoes, yams, and most fruit got nixed.

 

Though I have found that most of the people pushing a vegan diet also do not feel that testing is all that important and we've even seen negative reactions to the phrase "eat to your meter" here.  I never quite understood why.  The dietician I went to was shocked when I said I wanted to test before and after every meal.  He said I shouldn't worry myself over it.  At the same time he said I was in horrible shape and there wasn't a lot we could do.  Yeah, I'm still a little bitter over that appointment.

 

However, if someone gets consistently good numbers and is managing things well, I really don't give a rats rear what they eat.  Keep track of your food, your BG numbers, your lab results, and medications then come back and let us all know how its going.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FunDad62

My main motivation for watching these shows was researching how to reduce/prevent/even reverse heart disease.  And at the same time keep my diabetes under control.  When I said that I read "fat causes diabetes" I meant (what they said) is it's the fat buildup on the lining of your arteries that prevents sugar and carbs from being properly absorbed by the body and burned for energy.  Thereby resulting in high blood sugar.  Heck one of the doctors said when you eat a fatty meal the damage starts immediately.  Not down the road.  Inflammation, plaque buildup, etc.  I ate vegan for a week a couple of months ago and one of the unexpected results was my back stopped hurting during the night on the third day.  I can only assume because the nerves were less inflamed.  Surprised me.

 

They referenced Bill Clinton.  Everyone knows he didn't eat good and he had a couple of heart attacks.  He started following the Dean Ornish plan and look at him now.  Old maybe but healthy.  I can't recall what Larry King did but I read his first book and he was so terrified after having his heart attack that he made major changes in his lifestyle and hasn't had any more issues.  Heck it seems like he's 100 years old now.  Good for both of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kit

Look, I don't understand why you want to argue the subject.   If you are really interested in giving this a try, then do it. 

 

Keep logs of what you eat, make sure you're testing yourself after meals and logging it, log your medication.   Then come back and let us know the results. 

 

Saying so and so says this works doesn't pull a lot of weight. Saying "I tried this, my fastings are consistently under 100, my A1C had dropped, I've halved my insulin dose, and I feel great"  will make people sit up and take notice.  That's exactly what's happening with the lchf thing. People get excited because they tried it and it worked for them. I tried it so and so says it's good for me but because I read so many people reporting the excellent results they were getting and what the officials were telling me wasn't working. 

 

I don't understand the need to convince others before you have any personal data results.  Say this is what I'm reading /hearing. I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FunDad62
1 hour ago, Kit said:

Look, I don't understand why you want to argue the subject.   If you are really interested in giving this a try, then do it. 

 

I don't understand the need to convince others before you have any personal data results.  Say this is what I'm reading /hearing. I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes. 

 

If that's how it came across that wasn't my intent.  I'm not arguing or trying to convince anyone.  I was just interested in feedback so I can make decisions.  I'm just repeating what they say about plant-based eating.  Doesn't mean I'm completely convinced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanetP

Eat to your meter is my plan since I have been off track and through so many changes this year.  For now I am just tracking food, activity, and meds in addition to blood sugars.  Once I have a feel for what is what again, I will start going more plant based and see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kit
1 hour ago, FunDad62 said:

 

If that's how it came across that wasn't my intent.  I'm not arguing or trying to convince anyone.  I was just interested in feedback so I can make decisions.  I'm just repeating what they say about plant-based eating.  Doesn't mean I'm completely convinced.

 

It comes across more as "I am attracted to this philosophy so I need to convince others that its the right thing to do.  Then maybe I can get someone else to go through the effort to show that it works."

 

It appears as a chronic case of sitting on your rear unwilling to take the effort to actually make a change for the better, regardless which change you choose to make.

 

Try it.  If it works, wonderful.  let people know what you did, how you did it, and the results you got.

If it doesn't, let people know what you did, the results you got, and then try something else.

 

What I am doing is working very well for me and is not difficult for me to follow.  So I am pretty content at this point and not in a rush to make drastic changes.

 

If someone in the group says "hey I'm following this and I'm getting great results.  Here's where I was at, here's where I am now, here's how my various labs have improved" and similar, I will be more likely to show more interest.  But all we actually every hear are 3rd hand accounts and the usual statements that its supposed to be better.  My dietician told me the same stuff.  He also told me that diabetes was progressive and that I would get worse and worse as time goes on.

 

Its similar to this.  Every notice if you look up how to treat almost anything there are almost always the same two items listed.  Fat is evil, stop smoking.  I will totally agree that smoking is very unhealthy, but the recommendation is so global regardless of condition that I just cross my eyes every time.  My doctor's office keeps giving me pamphlets on how to stop smoking.  I don't smoke but they've still got to give them to me regardless.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dowling gram

It's not just what you eat. Carbs give you energy. Severely reduce them and the body searches for a new source of energy. It turns to burning fat for energy--so-- If you eat good fats and exercise none of the fat consumed can collect in the body.

 

Being vegan requires more than just cutting out meat. You still have to get enough protein to make your body function and that's hard to do without beans and other high carb things. It takes a lot of study and knowledge to be a healthy vegan and maintain a good BG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
carfree

Good point, dowling gram, about burning the fat.

Some people looking at research say that it the combo of fat and carbs together is problematic for this reason (your body will burn the carbs first, leaving the fat hanging around).  My head starts to spin sometimes with the research and different interpretations, sometimes biased in one direction or another. 

I see this discussion as part of trying to gather information about this topic.   It's interesting and informative to get different experiences and perspectives.  Of course, in the end it will involve trying a way of eating and then closely monitoring the results. 

FunDad, one thing to keep in mind is that your best bet to avoid heart disease for a diabetic is to control blood sugar so that's one reason to focus of BG.

One option, if a full vegan diet is unpalatable or causes high BG,  might be to do a modified approach, focusing on a way if eating that might  reduce inflammation (as you mentioned FunDad about your back feeling better when you ate vegan). 

Best of luck gathering info and experimenting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.