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Larry H.

Seeing the results of poor maintenance of diet and exercise.

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meyery2k

Out of curiosity, did your doctor explain why he was not fond of keto? 

 

While I lost a lot of weight with low carb, I find I now have to carefully balance intake and exercise.  If I eat too much and don't exercise, my weight will start to creep up.

 

While supposedly imperfect, it would appear the caloric intake model is useful to a degree.

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Larry H.

He didn't say, he just told me he didn't like the Keto diet.   I would have liked more information as well. My Urologist told me that If I wanted to stay on a Keto type diet I needed to add a considerable amount of Vinegar and water daily which I tired but couldn't bring my self to drink it. He said it would then prevent the issues associated with Kidneys I think he said, although it might have been any of the digestive organs I don't exactly recall which.  Evidently there is some concern from doctors about the long term use of the diet.   My after dinner meal yesterday was 125 which was the lowest it has been after dinner since the 119 the almond flour pancakes ended up. 

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Fraser

Question are you truly 

following a strict Keto diet including all the food restrictions, dont eat any forbidden foods, balance all your micro nutrients,

and test for Ketones?  I tried that for awhile and it just was not worth adding more restrictions.  My A 1 c is fine no meds, but doing LCHF not strict Keto.. 

 

Plus don’t tell your doctor that you are doing Keto (bad buzz word) Just say your are restricting your carb intake.  Doctors dont know everything. 

 

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Kit

In my experiance, most doctors know next to nothing about keto at all.  If they recognize the phrase they either think its ketoacidosis (very different) or they imagine your diet consists of stuff like 5 pounds of cheese and wrapped in a pound of bacon multiple times a day.  basically lots and lots of protein.

 

Lunch today.  Cauliflower, broccoli, onion, bell pepper, zucchini, and mushrooms with about 3oz of kielbasa.  Tastes good, about 11g of protein, and more veggies than most people see over the course of a day.

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Larry H.

Your right about the vegetable's I think.  Not sure what the LCHF diet stands for?  I tired to eat noon yesterday with two carb bread slices, some lunch meat and a few fritos.  No good it was 175 an hour past the two hour mark. Today I had a cup of no beans Aldi Chile some cheese, and almond flour muffin and a sugar free Jello Pudding that come in those small cups. To my knowledge I don't think they have bothered my numbers in other meals. So I suspect the Chile caused a 168 a half hour past the two hour mark.     I just have to keep looking for things I can manage. I know some of them but its hard when my mom doesn't understand anymore the importance of what to eat.  I found the can of chili and figured with no beans it couldn't do much, but I suppose it did. 

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Kit

LCHF = low carb, high fat

A ketogenic diet is low carb, moderate protein, and high in fat, though a lchf diet doesn't necessarily be ketogenic.

 

A ketogenic diet is when the carbohydrate intake is low enough that the body breaks down body and dietary fat into ketones which it can then use for fuel instead of glucose.  Usually the target goal is around 20g net carbs, though that can vary between individuals.

 

Re the canned chili.  Sadly you'[ve got to read the labels.  Just because it doesn't have beans, doesn't mean its not high in carbs.

When going through the ingedient list and nutritional information, make sure you are also checking serving size as they can play some tricks there.  1 can might have 3.25 servings in it.  Or 2.5 or something similar where someone might assume its a 1 or 2 serving can.

 

I highly recommend working out the carb counts on all of the foods you eat as you come to grips with what you work well with and what you don't.  It makes it easier than random guesses.  After a while you'll get better at estimating.  But even now I go through the nutritional information and ingredients list of every packaged food I buy (not a lot anymore). 

 

Just to show an example.  Hormel Chili with no beans

Serving size - 1 cup

Servings per container - about 2

Total carbs per serving - 19g

   Fiber - 3g

 

That's a lot of carbs for no beans.  So lets look at that ingredients list

WATER, BEEF AND PORK, TEXTURED SOY FLOUR, OATMEAL, CORN FLOUR, CHILI POWDER (CHILI PEPPERS, FLAVORING), CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF SUGAR, SALT, MODIFIED CORNSTARCH, HYDROLYZED SOY, CORN, AND WHEAT PROTEIN, TOMATO PASTE, FLAVORING, YEAST EXTRACT, SPICES.

 

Oatmeal, corn flour, sugar, modified corn starch are the highest culprits.  I'm not sure on the textured soy flour.  and things like the chili powder, tomato, and other spices are going to add to the count as well.  Though those are usually sources of carbohydrates I tend to lean towards.  

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Larry H.

Kit, thanks as usual, you are a great fountain of knowledge here a real asset.  I suspected the chili was probably a problem due to the ingredients. I can't remember exactly but it seemed that the Beanless version was about a third the listed carbs so I figured it would be reasonable. But with my new sensitivity nothing is reasonable it seems.  I know from the past month or so what things usually will work but I am trying to feel my way to things other than the same ones I can eat.  I don't know I would exactly be very fond of a vegetable meal that your using.  Vegetables with meat and cheese might be alright.  We used to have a green bean casserole that was potatoes and green beans alternated with ground beef and a tomato sauce with cheese on top.  I think when I was first new here years back I used to find the you could make it using mushrooms instead of potatoes and still it was pretty decent.  I am amazed as well at how low a carb diet your managing.  I have lost about 10 pound since I returned here and when I first started on this group I went from 197 to 155 which is about where I am now.  Much less and there won't be anything left. So where does the fuel to maintain the body weight need to come from, that is what I struggle with now. 

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Kit

Calories.  if you are loosing weight, you need to increased calories.

 

Its really easy to add calories in the form of fats, which are calorie dense.  And since dietary fat has very little affect on our BG levels, lchf and keto diets can be very helpful for diabetics.

 

A quick demonstration on how you can approach it.

 

I want a chicken salad sandwich.  Instead of bread, I cut an avocado in half and stuff with the chicken salad   Using a full fat mayo and using dark meat chicken, you up the fat content with almost no carbs.  This will depend on what all you put in to your chicken salad of course.

 

A large avocado contains 17g carbs, 13g fiber.  The two slices of bread would get you 34g of carbs with only 3.8g of fiber.  Avocado also contains 29g of healthy fats which pushes it up to over 300 calories just for the avocado.  Unlike the bread, which gives you 1.8g of fat and a whopping 138 calories, primarily from carbohydrates..

 

Now if you were already going low carb or keto, I would then suggest to up your protein intake a little.  Its pretty effective at stalling weight loss.

 

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adiantum

@meyery2k ... I admire & appreciate the extra effort you put into the forum.

 

Thinking of members like Larry here demonstrates how you go above & beyond the call of a mod.

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Larry H.

I wanted to drop in again and try to understand what may be happening.  At first the slightest white flour, a few crackers, a half a slice of bread put me in the 165 to 185 or more range.  I literally couldn't eat anything and have a half decent reading. It was quite depressing.  My latest Alc before that was around 6.3. Not bad but not wonderful either.  That was in June.  Had been seeing pretty decent readings for some years after the first time I came in for advice here. But that went away which prompted my return.   Those early years here there was some talk about Salacia Oblonga which is some sort of bark I think from India or somewhere in the  east.   I took it then to see if it would help. Gradually my numbers fell and lulled me in to not being as careful about what I ate. My cholesterol number also was at its lowest on some test when I had been using it.  Since my numbers had become so poor and nothing seemed to be working diet and exercise wise I found a old unopened bottle I still had of it.  I have been taking one capsule twice a day before meals, of which I often miss one or both some days.  

 

As to the numbers, I recall vividly trying about a fourth cup of a morning cereal to see what would happen. I had always eaten a small bowl for breakfast before and the number went up to 175 or so. No rhyme or reason to it I thought.  I had eggs and sausage with it for checking but it seemed to throw me way up. So did most others things that were of the grain or flour nature.  Over time now I have first tried steel cut oats and found my numbers to be very reasonable.  Finally I started to ease back into the cereal, (bran flakes), one of the lower carb choices.  Yesterday I had a pretty normal sized bowl with raisins and some blue berries on top, along with a yogurt and it was 116.  Last night we had the lower carb pasta, with sauce. I had a fair amount of the spaghetti with it.  Also two ginger snaps,  low carb ice cream, and a white flour roll.   It was  126 after two hours.  Far different from what I started to see. My AlC dropped to 5.9 in a test a couple weeks back.  I have also lost about 15 pounds or so.  There are lots of other items I have been able to tolerate now that sent my numbers way up.   

 

I don't know if I have some weird kind of diabeties that can go up and down so oddly over long periods, or if the Salacia Oblonga might actually be helping. I know when you look it up the results even from the American Diabetes society mention in testing it often  lowered results around 20%.  They also say it reduces Cholesterol as well.   I recall seeing an article that said the Metformin  that said was based on the same type of removing the glucose or cholestrol  as the Salacia does.   Any ideas on that, I don't know if much is said about this herbal product or not here any longer but something has made a big difference in where I was to where I am now.    ( I am in no way promoting it, just wondering since it has seemed to have helped me twice when I needed it)

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meyery2k

That is interesting.  No reason why a natural product couldn't work.  Metformin is derived from French Lilac.  Perhaps it helps lower insulin resistance or suppresses glucose release.

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Larry H.

I'am no expert at how drugs might work or natural items as well. But If I am recalling correctly I believe that is works though the digestive track to lower the glucose rather than though pancreas or what ever would be the other option.  

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