Floating in and out of prediabetes?

[MisterX 0]

Hi All,

 

First time poster. I was first diganosed with pre-diabetes in late 2014 (Oct) - can't find the blood glucose numbers now for all yearly tests except for the last two years. But basically in a nutshell the OTT results were:

 

2014 - Pre-Diabetes range.

2015 - Out of pre-diabetes range.

2016 - Pre-Diabetes range. 5.4 mmol/l Fasting, 7.8 mmol/l after 2 hrs. Triglyceride 380 mg/dL.

2017 - Out of pre-diabetes range.  5.9 mmol/l fasting, 7.0 mmol/l after 2 hrs Triglyceride 240 mg/dL.

2018 - Due in Nov 18 (bit scared though) 

 

My stats are as follows:

 

Age: 37

Gender: Male

Height: 170cm (or about 5'7")

Background: Asian (or Oriental in the UK) but raised in Australia.

Weight: before pre-diabetes result in 2014 it was 65 kgs. Lowest was in 2015 at about 56/57kgs but recently went back up to 60kgs.

 

I started to exercise (running 3kms a day) for about 3 days then upped it to about 4/5 depending time/family/work constraints. Prior to this I was your typical pre-diabetes suspect "asking for it" - I was a complete couch potato doing very little exercise, working a 9-5 office job, never really watched what I ate (nor did I quite understand what carbs and protein really were).

 

Unfortunately, probably due to the quality of the doctors I was seeing I was misinformed/offered poor advice and probably still naive about how serious my diet should be and how much damage I've probably done in the last 4 years or so. 

 

My questions are:

 

1) I've seen two separate doctors - neither really did seriously give me much information about pre-diabetes, gave very general advice like "cut carbs, sugar" and reduce rice (due to my Asian/Oriental background rice was almost at every meal). Should I "shop" for a new one? Reading these forums there is a lot more involved even as a pre-diabetic including testing blood on a daily basis and testing the sensitivity of foods. This was never explained to me by both doctors. All I did was cut my diet back and started to exercise rigorously. This was successful to a large extent but it never felt like I was in "control" - I never really understood what a Diabetic diet should be comprised of and to prevent it long term or felt I was properly informed. 

 

Once my results were "in the clear" I started to loosen the diet bit by bit where admittedly some bad habits like eating more sugary foods did come creep back into the diet from end of 2015 until about mid 2017 but I still continued or even increased my exercise regime. I feel bad about this and now upon feeling the great news I fell out of the pre-diabetic range I let the foot off the gas so to speak. If there is a silver lining though its the fact that I've kept up the exercise (approx 15kms a week of running) or 150 mins. 

 

2) On paper it appears the 2017 results were "better" but I somehow felt better and leaner in 2016 but fell into the pre-diabetes range? Is Fasting or after 2 hours the more "important" result if there is one?

 

Thanks.

Edited July 30, 2018 by MisterX

[adiantum 29,809]

Welcome to the forum Mister X. What a great ID that is.

 

I'm convinced the  inadequate information the doctors give is the start of us taking control  for ourselves.

You have a perfect opportunity to get your blood glucose under control before the due tests in November to avoid a diagnosis of diabetes.

It could affect your insurances or driving, so go for it &  reduce those carbs.

 

Dont beat yourself up though if it doesnt work as you could be LADA & not type 2

If it is type2 then diet & exercise should be a good starters for control.

Ive been able to keep my A1c down for 10 years by  limiting carbs to 70g at maximum for the day & just walking the dog & gardening.

 

Did the doctors refer you to register with ADA ? If so it will allow you subsidised  test strips.

I use & am confident to recommend CareSens meter. Give them a ring & they will send you a free meter in express post with a few test strips.

The cost of the strips is often based on your income. I'm an aged pensioner so I only pay 60c but a friend pays $7.

Testing  your blood glucose is the only way  to determine which foods you can tolerate & I do hope a little rice will be OK for you.

Keep a record of your success & failures at first   for future references.

Google carb content on the foods of choice.

 

You can be pretty sure processed foods are high in carbs so avoid them.

 

 

[Kit 24,974]

Hi MisterX, welcome to the group.

 

Sadly I am of the opinion that doctors don't really know all that much about diabetes and diabetic diets.  I keep getting told the same thing over and over.  Eat more fruits and whole grains, two items which cause my numbers to rise.

 

Re testing.  In my opinion, the most useful times to test are before and two hours after meals.  That morning fasting reading is usually the last place to show a problem and the last one to come back into line once you regain control.  Its useful, but doesn't really give you great immediate feedback.  Pre and post meals however, will give you very direct feedback on how your meal choices are directly affecting your numbers.  If a meal choice makes you higher than your target goals, you can adjust the meal to improve the reaction.

 

Taget goals

According to the CDC, an A1C under 6.0 reduces the chance of diabetic complications to near that of non diabetics.  In order to do this, here are some general goals.

 

Fasting and pre meals under 5.6 (100)

One hour after a meal under 7.8 (140)

Two hours after a meal under 6.7 (120)

 

I can be a little anal on the subject and aim for truly non diabetic numbers.  My A1C aim is under 5.6 and I try to never go above 6.7 (120) and prefer to stay under 5.6 (100) most of the time.

 

Fruits, grains, other starches like root vegetables, and sugars hit us the hardest.  Sugar is obvious as to why.  But fruit is full of sugar as well.  Yes its natural sugar, but sugarcane is also natural.  Grains and other starches get converted into sugar by the body very easily.

 

Some suggestions that can help.  Some you obviously know already.

 

Eliminate the simple sugars in your diet.  There is no nutritional value here what so ever.

 

Minimize your fruit consumption.  Testing yourself here will help you determine what you can and can't tolerate.  I can do ok with some berries here and there.

 

Minimize grains.  Even brown rice does nasty things to my numbers, as well as steel cut oats, whole wheat, and similar.  Again testing will show what you can and can't tolerate.  You may be able to handle smaller portions.

 

Root vegetables.  Minimize or eliminate.  Some people do well with a small portion of a sweet potato or similar.  I found through testing that the portion I can tolerate is so small its not worth it.  I do make use of items like onion, garlic, carrots, and similar.  But I only eat them in small quantities and use mostly for flavoring.

 

Beans and legumes.  

 

Nuts and Seeds - Most of these are pretty friendly carb wise.  Cashews are the higher of the lot and I try to avoid them because of that as well as the fact that I have an absolutely horrible tme with portion control.

 

Increase your intake of non starchy vegetables.  Yep, the ones most people almost never eat.  Zucchini, yellow squash, lettuces and greens, green beans, wax beans, mushrooms, asparagus, peppers, avocado, tomatoes, snow peas and a bunch of other stuff I'm not thinking of at the moment.

 

Be careful of milk as it can have a significant number of carbs.  However other dairy items such as cheese and cream can have very minimal amounts of carbs.  The same goes with meats and seafood.  The carb amounts are minimal to non existent.  Be careful of breading and sauces as they can be very carby.

 

Take the time to lookup serving sizes and nutritional information for the foods you eat.  You can match up this information with your meter readings to get an idea of what you can eat safely and at one serving size.  The most useful information you can have.

 

Alternatives.  I am not big on food replacements.  Mashed cauliflower will never taste like mashed potatoes no matter what you put into them.  However it can taste good as mashed cauliflower.  Its all about expectation.  I eat something because I like it, not because its a replacement for something I want to but can't realistically have anymore.  I am actually a big fan of riced cauliflower.  Its not a replacement for rice for me, but many use it as such and I feel its quite tasty in its own right.

 

For most asian inspired dished, I actually lean towards noodles.  My favorites are noodles made from zucchini or zoodles.  I love how they work in a thai curry or a simple stir fry.  You can also take a look at shirataki noodles.  They are very low in carb and almost all of those carbs are from fiber.  One brand, Miracle Noodles, actually makes a rice version though I have never tried it.

 

Anyway, stick around, ask any questions you might have.  We're a friendly bunch here with a lot of very first hand practical experience.

[Kit 24,974]

Ack!  I just realized I put in a section for beans and legumes and forgot to put anything there.

 

This is one of those test yourself and see areas.  Some people can tolerate them, I can only tolerate them in small amounts and infrequently.  For the most part I reserve it for when we go out to eat for mexican.  I'll get fajitas, skip the tortillas and rice, and just some of the beans.

[meyery2k 20,861]

MisterX - Welcome!  You will not find any better advice than you will here. ~ Mike

[PJ Lin 2]

MrX,

Leading a healthy lifestyle is always fundamental….nothing is more important than this.

So if you have been regularly exercising and eating good diets, your issue could be down to your genetics. 

What else you can add to help is described in this article (from University of Michigan): Researching proinsulin misfolding to understand diabetes

These scientists’s idea is to reduce the cellular stress level in pancreatic beta cells (genetic issue) so they can produce enough insulin. Once you have regained your beta cell function, insulin resistance will no longer be an issue. Yes, that’s because more and more scientists have believed that insufficient beta cell function is the real root cause of PreDM or DM2, not insulin resistance.

Although stimulating ERAD as they described in the article is still on the way, you may find it useful someday.

[ran23 6,561]

Asian American here, I hated giving up rice, Soba noodles and the like.  when I was on cholesterol med's I switched to Brown Rice (a big change) and liked that. It helped to get off of cholesterol med's.     Now with a higher glucose, it is soy noodles (based out of California) that I use for some dishes.   fun times.  

[dowling gram 6,131]

5 hours ago, PJ Lin said:

MrX,

Leading a healthy lifestyle is always fundamental….nothing is more important than this.

So if you have been regularly exercising and eating good diets, your issue could be down to your genetics. 

What else you can add to help is described in this article (from University of Michigan): Researching proinsulin misfolding to understand diabetes

These scientists’s idea is to reduce the cellular stress level in pancreatic beta cells (genetic issue) so they can produce enough insulin. Once you have regained your beta cell function, insulin resistance will no longer be an issue. Yes, that’s because more and more scientists have believed that insufficient beta cell function is the real root cause of PreDM or DM2, not insulin resistance.

Although stimulating ERAD as they described in the article is still on the way, you may find it useful someday.

More of the same nonsense

Edited March 15 by dowling gram

[PJ Lin 2]

14 minutes ago, dowling gram said:

More of the same nonsense

Thank you.

[DanG 119]

20 hours ago, PJ Lin said:

...(from University of Michigan): Researching proinsulin misfolding to understand diabetes

These scientists’s idea is to reduce the cellular stress level in pancreatic beta cells (genetic issue) so they can produce enough insulin. Once you have regained your beta cell function, insulin resistance will no longer be an issue. Yes, that’s because more and more scientists have believed that insufficient beta cell function is the real root cause of PreDM or DM2, not insulin resistance.

Although stimulating ERAD as they described in the article is still on the way, you may find it useful someday.

 

PJ Lin - thanks for the article from Michigan.  Reversing diabetes sounds good.  A challenge at the cellular level seems very similar to immunizations - live virus challenges the existing systems to produce... somewhat.  It seems conceptually plausible for this to be operative at cellular levels in the pancreas also.  Keep us informed about what you find.  You are the science guy and your information is a nice change of pace - thank you.

 

In the DieabetesForums Type 1 forum several years ago we had some challenging concepts floated.  A science forum was mentioned that was quite detailed regarding islets of langerhans and other parts of the pancreas.  It seems the forum participants were researchers and the information got quite complex.  You might like that website forum... if you can find it.  It was a simple name, i.e. islets.org.  If you find that research forum, please let us know.  Or, perhaps some of the olde guys here can recall or find the name... Tony?  The information was quite detailed and quite challenging to thought processes but the objective was similar to what you mention - thanks again.